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Re: GSoC, Outreachy and other time commitments (other jobs, etc)

I have been part of other discussion communities and in most of them administrators directly take the decision.

I really appreciate that Debian follows such an open culture where they ask and respect everyone's opinion.

Said that, I believe the work of GSOC can't be quantified in a general way. As Daniel said it depends on lot of factors like the task given, pre knowledge of student etc.

Mentors should try to get in touch with students and should try to understand their state of mind and decide mutually whether they would be able to do GSOC work along with their other pre commitments.

On 27-Apr-2016 11:40 AM, "Daniel Pocock" <daniel@pocock.pro> wrote:

On 26/04/16 23:54, Olly Betts wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 02:18:43PM +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>> There have been different statements about this from different mentors
>> and Google themselves each year.
> What Google's FAQ says *this year* is clear:
> | How much time does GSoC participation take?
> |
> | You are expected to spend about 40 hours a week working on your project
> | during the 3 month coding period. If you already have an internship,
> | another summer job, or plan to be gone on vacation for more than a week
> | during that time, GSoC is not the right program for you this year.
> This is certainly more explicit than the equivalent FAQ entry has been
> in previous years, but what the FAQ for 2016 says is what matters for
> 2016.
> I understand you don't like this expectation, but trying to subvert it
> within Debian is not productive - getting Debian banned from GSoC isn't
> good for anybody.  If you want to change the basis on which students are
> expected to work, you really need to take it up with the OSPO team.

Why do you feel I am trying to subvert it?  Debian values transparency
and that is probably one of the reasons Google has a lot of confidence
in Debian, don't you think it is fair that we discuss this in the same
way as any other challenge?

The questions raised by some of the students are quite valid and I've
been happy to answer them as best I can.  The rest we can take up with
Google and bring the answers back to the students and the rest of the

Please have another look at my original email and the question at the
end: "What is a fair way to make this clear for mentors and students?
How many hours per work is it reasonable for a student to spend on
another activity during the summer?"

Is that really subversive?  Or is it something Google simply hasn't
explained in their FAQ?

Let me be more explicit: if a student has a job working two 5 hour
shifts at a night club on Friday night and Saturday night (10 hours
total), how many mentors would feel that is too much?  If a student is
in their national rowing team and spends 2 hours each morning training
and 2 hours each night coaching juniors or training, how many mentors
would feel that is too much?

Students going to another job for 8 hours per day and then squeezing
GSoC into a couple of hours in the evening when they are already tired
are likely to make more mistakes, sometimes they fail or disappear, it
is demoralizing and frustrating for the mentors and I agree with Google
trying to address that.  I'm not sure that the way they have written
this in the FAQ does address it though.



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