On 2004-08-23 21:16:06 +0100 ivan-debian@420.am wrote:
On Mon, Aug 23, 2004 at 03:12:51AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:I don't think turning around and blaming the NM process is a reasonable reaction.I am dismayed and exasperated by the recent trend of bashing the debian-legal list collectively,
Great! Can everyone get past the mutual blaming and improve the NM process then? It is really important that NMs understand that we actually have real trouble to worry about when looking at copyrights, trademarks and patents, and that "err on the side of putting everything in main" really could hurt. Is asking a question about beer prices (nm_pp.txt Q3, asked of me twice during NM IIRC) enough to do that?
Actually, looking at nm_pp.txt, it's not really clear to me what answers to 5a and 6 would be accepted, given the expressed views of some DDs. Anyway, we probably need some questions about the more interesting things like patent termination clauses or copyright-enforced trademarks (debian logo?), as they are pretty common problems. I'll have to let some of the gurus give good examples to start, but I'll help if I can.
[...]
Many folks see debian-legal as "armchair laywering" from a position of ignorance. How many participants are attorneys?
Few. I think there are a couple of helpful law students subscribed. I'm amazed that they stick around, given the abuse they sometimes get from the "lawyers should go get another job" school of DDs. I appreciate their perseverence and help, though.
For my part, I try to listen to lawyers who actually know copyright, trademarks and patents when they talk to me, but that only really happens at conferences recently. I've been exposed to the sharp end of copyright for enough years that I should have learnt something from them by now.
To me, a bigger problem with debian-legal is the sheer volume it generates and very few people have indexed it, so it takes a lot of effort to actually learn from history. Grounding firmly in the DFSG is tricky, as they're guidelines, not a closed definition. Recently, debian-legal has also been the victim of some unfriendly people and the tabloids stirring the pot which has amplified the problems. The archive search engine isn't that great for research when there are hundreds of posts about a licence. We've a few things in motion to try to improve that side of things, but I'm sure more help would be welcome.
Best wishes, -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and not of any group I know http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ for creative copyleft computing Please email about: BT alternative for line rental+DSL; Education on SMEs+EU FP6; office filing that works fast