Re: Becoming a Debian Maintainer - and behavior of DDs
Hi Paul,
June 30 2016 4:07 PM, "Paul Tagliamonte" <paultag@debian.org> wrote:
> I started replying to this mail, but I found that I really don't want
> to. I'm guessing you don't want me to, either. After all, I'm just a
> person. A person totally unrelated to this, who knows nothing of facts,
> and will never know the facts.
>
> So, let me treat this mailing list like my blog, once again, and talk a
> bit about something I do know a bit about - ways in which teams fail.
>
> So, Richard, here's what I have to say and/or think on this -
>
> My current job is being thrown into a large amount of dysfunction, with
> a small bit of air-cover, and to work to stabilize things which are
> unstable, and help to foster a culture of engineering in a place which
> doesn't take well to that.
>
> I see a lot of things. I see a lot of good things, and I see a lot of
> bad things. Often times it's not clear who's right, and frankly, it
> doesn't matter, because it's not important.
>
> It doesn't matter if doing something way X is better or worse than way
> Y when half the team is refusing to cooperate. Turns out that's a bigger
> issue.
>
> Technical failures in 1-50 Million USD/year projects are *rarely*
> technical in nature, rather, they're Social. I don't see why Debian is
> any different.
>
> Sometimes this takes the form of experts being ignored, sometimes it
> takes the form of antibodies being sent to kill good work, and sometimes
> it takes the form of rules designed for one situation being
> misinterpreted and applied to cases that don't sit in-line with the
> principal of the rule.
>
> Good work often dies. People get angry. Defenses go up, and everyone
> loses. People start to fight about who's violating what rules, and
> suddenly everyone's at fault for all the failures everywhere.
>
> What's lacking in teams, generally speaking, is usually empathy.
>
> It's pretty easy to get that frustrated and annoyed pit of your stomach
> where all you want to do is fight with someone. I get it often. I'm part
> of the problem. I'm cocky, and sometimes I don't listen at all. I'm
> pretty quick to blame other people, and I have a long list of
> personality faults. But that's not really the point of this email.
>
> I'm aware of these things, and it's something I try to monitor, because
> the fact is, I'm helping to shape the culture and team around me. People
> will read the things I write and change their behavior. Sometimes in a
> good way, sometimes in a bad way. I'm an imperfect person, so I'm going
> to have an imperfect effect on things around me.
>
> This entire spat in this team is frustrating, and it looks very murkey.
> I don't want to weigh in because I have no buisness doing so. All I know
> is I get the feeling no one is *listening* to eachother.
>
> People don't contribute to F/OSS or Debian because they are
> mean-spirited evildo-ers who want to rule the world, because frankly,
> there are quicker ways to do that. People contribute because they care.
> Myon cares, and you care. These are facts.
>
> Both of you want to make the world a better place and make Debian a
> better place. This is a fact I've accepted.
>
> The failure here appears to be based on communication, and feelings of
> hurt. This is normal. This is basically the same as every other Thursday
> I've seen for the last year.
>
> Fealings matter, and ensuring we have a space where people don't feel
> like there is a team of people undermining them is important. Even if
> it's true, the *perception* is enough to cause, well, this email thread.
>
> I've never talked with you before, Richard, but I see you litigating and
> going on the offensive. I'm guessing this is because you feel wronged by
> Myon, and the larger population needs to understand this, and ensure new
> contributors don't feel this way. I agree. I want to make sure no new
> contributor feels this -- true or false, perception or reality. I don't
> know how, but I know it's not good. I'm *with you* on that. I'm sure
> Myon is *with you* on that.
>
> All I ask is that you empathize with eachother, and think about what the
> situation looks like from their point of view.
>
> As a general rule, I feel that I can learn a lot about a person after
> they answer the following questions:
>
> 1. What's your least favorite programming language, and why?
> 2. Explain why people like that programming language.
>
> If 2. is answered with "because their dumb dumbs", I know where the
> problem is.
>
> So, I guess my gentle invitation is for folks in Debian generally to stop and
> think about the motiviations and reasoning for the things that people do
> in Debian, and to not assume the problem is with other people.
>
> For the most part, *we* are the problem. *I* am the problem. *we* have
> failed countless people, and we will continue to. Let's start there and
> find common ground.
I know I said I wasn't going to reply on this chain again - but I couldn't let you give all that insight and not at least say thank you!
I did make the email simply to push people to think of both sides of a 'new contributor - mentor/sponsor' relationship. I know that nobody _has_ to mentor or sponsor me at all, and I'm grateful for even as far as I have come. I do care, and I know Christoph does too. He has chatted with me prior to his last reply and we even had seemingly reconciled.
When I read his reply to the email several days later I felt aggravated as his comments were points I believed we had already worked out - and that he understood where communications went sour. It looked to me like a reply that is meant to make me look a certain way - like someone simply aggravated because they weren't progressed - which isn't the case.
It's not about getting advocated - it's about the belittling of others and the elitist attitudes that really don't have a place anywhere in life; let alone a Free Software Community.
I felt if I stood up and posted about my aggravation to the mailing list (and mind you only to newmaint and mentors) that we might all think about these aspects a little more. Maybe it already helped, maybe it already hurt. From the couple of replies I've gotten it seems to be a bit of both.
Ultimately though, I cannot put it any better than you do, on either side.
Thank you for your insight Paul, its appreciated.
Best regards,
Richard B Winters
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