Re: Becoming a Debian Maintainer - and behavior of DDs
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
Hi Christoph,
June 22 2016 5:26 PM, "Christoph Berg" <myon@debian.org> wrote:
> [tl;dr: Richard is disappointed that I didn't advocate him for DM,
> while I did advocate other team members shortly after.]
>
> Hi Richard,
>
> Re: Richard B Winters 2016-06-22 <[🔎] 204e2c0e01254a766699d615036d2a51@mail.mmogp.com>
>
>> During that time I worked with Christoph Berg, he advised not to play with repository structure too
>> much - and asked that I didn't do more than I had to to get the stack working again.
>
> I didn't recommend any particular repository structure. What I did
> recommend was not to bikeshed about that, stop discussing the layout,
> and start the real work.
>
In essence, exactly what I said. Ferenc wanted to change the repository layout, I wasn't opposed, you hadn't wanted to focus on that. I don't see what you are disagreeing with here?
>> Ferenc disregards all my work and makes his own repository on github (instead of contributing to
>> the team repository) so that he can structure branches how he wants and move to DEP-14 (I was never
>> opposed to that, but its exactly what Christoph asked me not to do when I suggested it based off of
>> conversations I had with Ferenc) - and after Christoph states that he doesn't care for
>> bike-shedding and had been working with me already on some of the packages along with Adrian; he
>> reneged with regard to Ferenc's new repository (which was now missing all of my changelog entries
>> which cataloged my contributions to the package, the very thing I didn't do - but which Ferenc
>> complained about himself).
>
> It was suboptimal that Feri's changes were often staged elsewhere, but
> this was communicated, and I think now everything relevant is on
> git.debian.org.
You blatantly refused me when I offered to host some code on Github. Refused to even look at it. Yet when Ferenc did it you were more than willing to work with him solely on his account until such time as you were ready to replace the work I had done on the team repository. It's not just sub-optimal my man, its manipulative and deceptive.
>> Yes, after Debconf Christoph's whole demeanor towards me changed; He blatantly started uploading
>> each and every one of Ferenc's packages, 'mindfully' attempting to accept the ruby packages I
>> worked on - I'm guessing to try to make me feel better and shut me up. And all he had to offer was
>
> Sorry if uploading your packages was wrong. Would it have been better
> to not do anything?
Probably, it was a Ruby package I brought to the Ruby team, and one of the members was reviewing my work - albeit a while back but still. If I recall you did not even review my package, and after your first upload the ftp team emailed back having denied the upload for what I'm recalling as a minor mistake that you would have picked up had you actually reviewed my work.
Is that your routine? Whoever's package you can upload without having to review or fix - that is who you will sponsor, and mentor? You offered to sponsor the team when you first came to us....not just Ferenc.
> At that point, corosync and pacemaker were the next packages in the
> stack that needed to be done. "Your" pcs and crmsh packages were due
> after that. That was the reason for the ordering.
>
>> a 'Sorry if your changelog entries got removed'. Sure I was still in the uploaders field or
>> whatever, but the changes I made to code were no longer noted.
> I don't fancy changelog bikeshedding. All your changes made it into
> the next package, though possibly after re-re-rebasing them through
> whatnot git operations, the changelogs were a mess. I'd care more
> about getting the problems fixed.
Again, you are avoiding the real issue. Let me explain for you in very clear terms. Putting me in the uploaders field doesn't mean crap to anybody, especially when I can't upload. My name was there solely so I could upload to mentors.
The real issue is that I did massive amounts of work to the package, as well as others. When you do something in a package you add the change to the change log. When multiple people do something, you format the changelog a certain way. What is ironic about this is that you and Ferenc made a point to 'teach' this to me and show me how to format such a changelog.
Why is it that my changes were removed? For instance:
[Richard B. Winters]
* change
* change
[Christoph Berg]
* change
* change
When I review the package, the whole section for me is gone (not just the signature at the end...proving what you actually care about). Thanks for that. The change log wasn't a mess by the way, it was quite understandable. If you guys hadn't been rebasing and rebasing and bikeshedding you wouldn't have created such a mess. You don't care for bikeshedding though right?
>> I had also asked Christoph to advocate me as a maintainer 6-8 months prior to now, which was
>> already almost a year after I had started working with the Debian-HA packages. He told me he'd
>> consider it after the stack was done. He advocated for Ferenc very shortly after Debconf, far
>> before the stack is complete (it still isnt complete even) - only a month or two later. Now, months
>> after that, Christoph is advocating Ferenc as a DD.
>
> Richard I'm sorry to have to say that: You were not ready to be
> advocated for DM, while Ferenc was. I like mumbled something like
> "later" when you asked me about it. I should have been more explicit
> about this.
You did not say that, not even close to that. Your exact opinion was that we would discuss advocating me after the stack was repaired in Debian. You claimed that was your standing in general for all - and not just me. You are blatantly lying here.
The fact still remains that you simply clicked with Ferenc (and there really isn't anything wrong with that part), and the problem is your behavior and attitude about doing your volunteer position the way you are supposed to with regards to all team members. Fairly. You should have stuck to your guns and not advocated anybody, and waited to make decisions regarding such a matter until after the stack was repaired - as you said you would. Had you said those words, that you didn't feel I was ready - there wouldn't be a problem.
>> If you cannot tell, this is a play of favoritism, and isn't right. Christoph was setting him up
>> with history (by only uploading his work and ignoring mine and others) so he could exaggerate his
>> contributions and quickly help him to promote to DD. In his advocacy for Ferenc, Christoph makes it
>> appear as if Ferenc did all that work himself - though he most certainly did not. Countless months
>> did Adrian and I work on those softwares in the stack, and I feel that I at least am being slapped
>> in the face. Adrian - however - was advocated by Christoph very near the same time as Ferenc.
>
> I've never said anywhere that Ferenc did all work there. I did say
> though that he did excellent work. That's a fine difference.
Not specifically, but by the words you did use, and your behavior; you did. You have chosen to work directly with Ferenc on a regular basis. You review his work, you help him, you advocate him, and you speed him along through the process of becoming a DD.
You never reviewed my work much more than a couple times. in fact, Ferenc did an excellent job reviewing my work for the smallest of flaws. You mentor, you work with a team...by working with them all.
>> I continued to discuss this with Myon and he goes as far as to type 'stop yelling', 'I'm more than
>> happy to have you on the team but...' Almost as if he's threatening to remove me from Alioth and
>> kick me off the team if I pursue this. Meanwhile, the only all-caps words in IRC were from
>> Christoph (Myon). I'll post our conversation from today [1], but please note that I do get he
>> doesnt
>> _have_ to advocate me - not as a DM or DD. But playing favorites and lying is not really - in my
>> mind - the thing a DD (or any Debian Contributor) should be doing.
>
> The all caps part was when you insisted that you were removed from the
> Uploaders fields and wouldn't listen to me trying to tell you that
> this was just wrong. You have been in the Uploaders fields of all
> relevant packages all the time.
Again, you are just talking out of your .... I care not about the uploaders field, I've said this to you numerous times (and repeated it yet again for you above). I do not know any other way to make you understand that I am not an idiot, I know what you are doing and I can see through your BS.
Instead of excuses, why not simply apologize and promise it wont happen again, just like you did in IRC after I sent the original email - instead of making excuses that contradict your actions?
Again, I wasn't expecting anything of this email chain. I simply want this information shared someplace more permanently than IRC chat.
Best regards,
Richard B Winters
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: OpenPGP.js v1.2.0
Comment: http://openpgpjs.org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=j6+9
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Reply to: