# Debian LTS - impressions and thoughs from my first month involvement originally posted at http://layer-acht.org/thinking/blog/20140819-lts-july-2014/ ## About LTS - we want feedback and more companies supporting it financially Squeeze LTS, and even more [Debian LTS](https://wiki.debian.org/LTS), is a pretty young project, started in May 2014, so it's still a bit unclear where exactly we'll be going :) One purpose of this post is to spread some information about the initiative and invite you to tell us what you think about it or what your needs are. LTS stands for "Long Term Support" and the goal of the project is to extend the security support for Squeeze (aka the current oldstable distribution) by two years. If it weren't for Squeeze LTS, the security support for it would have been stopped in May 2014 (=one year after the release of the current stable distribution), which for many is a too short timespan after it's release in February 2011. It's an experiment, we hope that there will be a similar Wheezy LTS initiative in future, but the future is unwritten and things will change based on our experiences and your needs. If you have feedback on the direction LTS should take (or anything else LTS related), please comment on the [lts mailing list] (https://lists.debian.org/debian-lts/). For immediate feedback there is also the #debian-lts IRC channel. Another quite pragmatic way to express your needs is to [read more about how to financially contribute to LTS](http://www.freexian.com/services/debian- lts.html) and then doing exactly that - and unsurprisingly we are prioritizing the updates based on the needs expressed from our paying customers. ## My LTS work in July 2014 So, "somehow" I started working for money on Debian LTS in July, which means there were 10h I got paid, and probably another 10h where I did LTS related work unpaid. I used those to release four updates for squeeze-lts ([linux-2.6](https://lists.debian.org/debian-lts- announce/2014/07/msg00002.html), [file](https://lists.debian.org/debian-lts- announce/2014/07/msg00013.html), [munin](https://lists.debian.org/debian-lts- announce/2014/08/msg00004.html) and [reportbug] (https://lists.debian.org/debian-lts-announce/2014/08/msg00005.html)) fixing 22 CVEs in total. The unpaid work was mostly spent on unsuccessfully working on security updates and on adding support for LTS to the [security team tracker](https://security- tracker.debian.org/tracker/), which I improved but couldn't fully address and which I haven't properly shared / committed yet... but at least I have a local instance of the tracker now, which - for LTS - is more useful than the .debian.org one. Hopefully during DebConf14 we'll manage to fix the tracker for good. Without success I've looked at libtasn1-3 (where the first fixes applied easily but then the code had changed too much from what was in squeeze compared to the available patches that I gave up) and libxstream-java (which is at version 1.3, while patches exist for upstream branches 1.4 and 2.x, but those need newer java to build and maybe if I'll spend two more hours I'll can get it build and then I'll have to find a useful test case, which looked quite difficult on a brief look.. so maybe I give up on libxstream-java too.... OTOH, if you use it and can do some testing, please do tell me. Working on all these updates turned out to be more team work than expected and a lot of work involving code (which I did expect), and often code which I'd normally not look at... similarily with tools: one has to deal with tools one doesnt like, eg I had to install cdbs... :-) And as I usually like challenges, this has actually been a lot of fun! Though it's also pretty cool to use common best practices, easy and understandable workflows. I love README.Source (or better yet, when it's not needed). And while git is of course really really great, it's still very desirable if your package builds twice (=many times) in a row, without resetting it via git. ## Some more observations The first 16 updates (until July 19th) didn't have a DLA ID, until I suggested to introduce them and insisted until we agreed. So now we agreed to put the DLA ID in the subject of the announcement mails and there is also some tool support for generating the templates/mails, but enforcing proper subjects is not done, as silent bounces are useless (and non silent ones can be abused too easily). I'm not really happy about this, but who is happy with the way email works today? And I agree, it's not the end of the world if an LTS announcement is done without a proper ID, but it looks unprofessional and could be avoided, but we have more important work to do. But one day we should automate this better. Another detail I'm not entirely happy is the policy/current decision that "almost everything is fine to upload if deemed sensible by the uploader" (which is everyone in the Debian upload keyring(s)). In discussions before actually having the archive some people suggested the desire to upload new upstream versions too (eg newer kernels, iceweasel or other software to keep running a squeeze desktop in the modern world were discussed). I sincerely hope for most intrusive new upstream versions squeeze-(sloppy-)backports is used instead, and squeeze-lts rather not. Luckily so far all uploads were (IMHO) sensible and so, right now, I will just say that I hope it will stay this way. And it's true, one also has to install these upgrades in the first place. But people do that blindly all the time... So by design/desire currently there is no gatekeeping mechanism whatsover (no NEW, no proposed updates), except that only some selected "few" can upload. What is uploaded (and signed correctly), gets pushed to archive, buildds and the mirrors, and hopefully maybe someone will send an announcement. So far this has worked remarkedly well - and it's also the way the Debian Security team works, as I'm told. Looking at this from a process quality / automatisation perspective, all this manual and errorprone labour seems very strange to me. ;-) And then there is another thing: as already mentioned, the people working paid hours for this, are prioritizing their work based on customer requests. So we did two updates (python-scipy and file), which are not fixed in wheezy yet. I think this is unfortunate and while I could probably prepare the wheezy DSA for file, I don't really want to join the Security Team... or maybe I want/should join the Security Team and be a seldomly active member (eg fixing file in wheezy now....) A note related to this: out of those 37 uploads done until today, 16 were done by those [two people](http://blog.alteholz.eu/2014/07/my-debian-activities-in- july-2014/) being paid, while the other 21 uploads were done by 10 volunteers (or at least not paid by Debian LTS). It will be interesting to see how this statistics evolves over time. Last, but not least, there is also this can of worms (aka: the discussion) about paying people to work on Debian... I do agree it's work we didnt find volunteers for and I also see how the (financial side of the) setup is done outside of Debian (and well too, btw!), but... then we also use Debian ressources like buildds, the archive itself and official mailing lists. Also I'm currently biased in this discussion, as I directly (and happily) profit from it. I'm mentioning this here, because I believe it's important we discuss this and come to both good and practical conclusions. FWIW, we have also discussed this on the list, feel free to search the archives for it. To bring this post to an end: for those attending DebConf14 (directly or [thanks to some ninjas] (https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf10/Videoteam/Thanks)), there will be an event about LTS in Portland, though I'm not sure yet what I will have to talk about what hasn't been already covered here :-) But this probably means that will be a good opportunity for *you* to do lots of talking instead! I'm curious what you will have to say! Thanks for reading this far. I think I can promise that my next LTS report will be shorter :-D cheers, Holger
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