"Steffen Möller" <steffen_moeller@gmx.de> writes: > -------- Original-Nachricht -------- >> Datum: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 20:41:15 +0200 >> Von: Michael Banck <mbanck@debian.org> >> An: debian-project@lists.debian.org >> Betreff: Re: Presentation of iso downloads - simpler like Fedora? > >> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 09:59:45PM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh >> wrote: >> > On Fri, 10 Aug 2012, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote: >> > > On ven., 2012-08-10 at 14:01 +0200, Steffen Möller wrote: >> > > > some binary software forced me into downloading a RedHat flavour, so >> I >> > > > went for Fedora. I found it very easy to get an ISO. I mean - very >> very >> > > > very easy. My suggestion is to copy that for our now pending release >> or >> > > > to make it even easier - not that I would know how to do that. They >> even >> > > > auto-picked a good mirror for me. >> > > > >> > > > http://fedoraproject.org >> > > > >> > > What about the direct link on top right of http://www.debian.org ? >> > >> > Whatever the reason, a lot of people seems to miss that "Download" box. >> > I mean it. >> >> Yeah, I did as well, when I last looked at it. > > This thread pointed me to it. The "Getting Debian" is what jumped at > me. And I had a colleague next to me whom I wanted to stop from > installing Ubuntu by downloading the iso quickly since he was already > burning Ubuntu's. One is guided to the Ubuntu ISOs more easily than > with Debian, too, just more nerve-wrecking than with Fedora because of > the extra clicks. The download link did not allow to change to Wheezy, > which these days might possibly be worthwhile to announce a bit more. This reminds me: While contrasting with Ubuntu, there is also the issue of Debian Live CDs which are close to impossible to find, and if you eventually manage to find them, turn out to be too big to fit on a CD. Since I've mentioned this to a few people in person, who then said "Oh, that's easy, you just ..." and eventually admitted that I'm right, I'll walk you through the process in order to save you all the effort of trying it yourselves. So, you stick "Debian Live" into your favourite search engine (duckduckgo.com in my case). and it takes you to http://live.debian.net/, a nice friendly looking site, with encouragingly cute icons -- clearly this is going to be easy, right? And the second link on the page is: Download releases: stable so let's try that... Hmm, directories: [DIR] amd64/ 10-Apr-2012 14:16 - [DIR] i386/ 10-Apr-2012 14:18 - [DIR] source/ 29-Jan-2012 15:43 - well let's pretend that newbies are going to know that their Intel Core processor needs amd64, and click that... Another directory: [DIR] bt-hdd/ 10-Apr-2012 14:17 - [DIR] bt-hybrid/ 10-Apr-2012 14:16 - [DIR] iso-hybrid/ 10-Apr-2012 14:16 - [DIR] net/ 07-Apr-2012 08:37 - [DIR] usb-hdd/ 10-Apr-2012 14:17 - [DIR] web/ 07-Apr-2012 08:54 - I guess there's a vague chance that the "iso" bit of "iso-hybrid" would sound familiar, so we'll give them the benefit of the doubt and click that... [ ] MD5SUMS 07-Apr-2012 08:29 1.8K [ ] MD5SUMS.sign 07-Apr-2012 08:37 836 [ ] SHA1SUMS 07-Apr-2012 08:29 2.0K [ ] SHA1SUMS.sign 07-Apr-2012 08:37 836 [ ] SHA256SUMS 07-Apr-2012 08:29 2.6K [ ] SHA256SUMS.sign 07-Apr-2012 08:37 836 [ ] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-gnome-desktop.iso 29-Jan-2012 12:12 1.1G [TXT] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-gnome-desktop.iso.list 29-Jan-2012 12:12 18K [TXT] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-gnome-desktop.iso.log 29-Jan-2012 12:12 359K [ ] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-gnome-desktop.iso.packages 29-Jan-2012 12:11 31K [ ] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-kde-desktop.iso 29-Jan-2012 12:59 1.0G [TXT] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-kde-desktop.iso.list 29-Jan-2012 12:59 18K [TXT] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-kde-desktop.iso.log 29-Jan-2012 13:00 302K [ ] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-kde-desktop.iso.packages 29-Jan-2012 12:58 29K [ ] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-lxde-desktop.iso 29-Jan-2012 13:28 753M [TXT] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-lxde-desktop.iso.list 29-Jan-2012 13:27 18K [TXT] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-lxde-desktop.iso.log 29-Jan-2012 13:28 208K [ ] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-lxde-desktop.iso.packages 29-Jan-2012 13:27 21K [ ] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-rescue.iso 29-Jan-2012 11:33 549M [TXT] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-rescue.iso.list 29-Jan-2012 11:33 18K [TXT] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-rescue.iso.log 29-Jan-2012 11:33 236K [ ] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-rescue.iso.packages 29-Jan-2012 11:33 17K [ ] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-standard.iso 29-Jan-2012 11:13 232M [TXT] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-standard.iso.list 29-Jan-2012 11:13 18K [TXT] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-standard.iso.log 29-Jan-2012 11:13 158K [ ] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-standard.iso.packages 29-Jan-2012 11:12 5.8K [ ] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-xfce-desktop.iso 29-Jan-2012 14:03 809M [TXT] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-xfce-desktop.iso.list 29-Jan-2012 14:03 18K [TXT] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-xfce-desktop.iso.log 29-Jan-2012 14:03 244K [ ] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-xfce-desktop.iso.packages 29-Jan-2012 14:02 24K Woo! .iso images, we've won! Oh, wait, which one ... amd64-gnome-desktop.iso? shame there's no README to give a hint ... (there is a "standard" one, but that has no X so probably isn't what a newbie needs) Hmm, the ISO for the gnome variant is 1.1G -- that's not exactly useful for burning to a CD. How about XFCE? 809M -- still too big. So, after all that we've suckered people in with the cute front page, and then comprehensively wasted their time, particularly if they went to effort of downloading only to find that they've made a coaster by trying to put too big an image on their CD. I've heard the response that live.debian.net is actually supposed to be aimed at developers, so one shouldn't expect to find anything usable there for end users, which is fair enough, but in that case the front page should carry a prominent warning, and not have the cute icons. It would be really nice to have working live CDs, preferably linked to From the front page along with the install CDs, accessible in one or two clicks. I realise that one problem with that is the mechanical manner in which the ISOs produced by Debian Live just include the relevant tasks, and there's just too much stuff in that list to fit on a CD these days, which presumably means that someone needs to decide which packages to strip out to make them fit. Actually, in the case of the gnome CD, I see that it has the gnome package on it, which of course drags in a load of stuff, rather than just gnome-core and perhaps selected other packages. I'm not picking on gnome here BTW -- neither KDE nor XFCE fit either, so perhaps the problem is really that all the underlying X stuff is too big these days. Assuming that it's even possible to trim down the packages to fit on a CD, then perhaps a $DESKTOP-light or task-livecd-$DESKTOP package with a reduced set of dependencies from the default desktop package could be created, thus giving the Debian Live people a package to use for their CD images, and somewhere to report a bug when the resulting image creeps beyond the size of a CD. I can report this as a bug if that helps, but it seems to me that the debian-live folk need to have a chat with all the desktop packagers and come up with a solution between you (or declare it impossible, and put a warning on the live.debian.net front page that only DVD-sized images are available if you want to run a GUI) Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] http://www.hands.com/ |-| HANDS.COM Ltd. http://www.uk.debian.org/ |(| 10 Onslow Gardens, South Woodford, London E18 1NE ENGLAND
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