Re: GPL and linking (was: Urgently need GPL compatible libsnmp5-dev replacement :-()
Raul Miller wrote:
>On 5/7/05, Michael K. Edwards <m.k.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 5/6/05, Raul Miller <moth.debian@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 5/6/05, Michael K. Edwards <m.k.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 5/6/05, Raul Miller <moth.debian@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I believe you're objecting to the "that is to say" phrase,
>>>>>which restates what
>>>>>"work based on the Program": means.
>>>>
>>>>Attempts to, anyway.
>>>
>>>I think this "attempts to" quip is meaningless.
>>
>>How would you like me to say it? "Purports to"? "Professes to"?
>>"Makes an honest but flawed effort to"?
>
>
>That would depend on the meaning you are trying to convey, wouldn't
>it?
>
>If there's nothing of relevance to say (which is what I believe is
>the case here), then the best way to convey that lack of meaning is
>through not saying it. Alternatively, if there is a flaw, ou could
>succinctly describe the flaw. Or, if succinctness is impossible
>you could give a url for a page which describes the flaw.
Succinctly describing the flaw:
1. '' a "work based on the Program" means either the Program or any
derivative work under copyright law '' -- this is a definition. It
defines what the expression "work based on the Program" means
throughout the GPL text.
2. '' : that is to say, a work containing the Program or a portion
of it, either verbatim or with modifications and/or translated into
another language '' -- this is an attempt to restate (1) above, that
fails because:
a) "a work containing the Program or a portion of it, either
verbatim or with modifications and/or translated into
another language" is not equivalent nor explain nor
precisely exemplifies what is "the Program or any derivative
work under copyright law".
This is relevant because
a) there are derivative works of the (original) Program that
do NOT contain the Program nor verbatim nor with
modifications nor translated into another language.
b) there are works that contain the Program, verbatim or
with modifications and/or translated into another languages
that are NOT derivative works of the Program.
c) (a) above *are* works encompassed by the expression "work
based on the program", while (b) above are NOT.
>
>I've yet to see anything which makes me believe that the GPL
>carries this flaw you're suggesting.
Sincerely, you are trying hard not to see. I am a defender of the
GPL and of the "legal judo" and of the concept of the copyleft, but
*if* its original intent was to limit linking, in this aspect it
failed... just because of the poor phrasing of the section 0, caput.
>
>>Do you not understand my interpretation that the use of quotes
>>around "work based on the Program" means that the writer is
>>defining it as shorthand for "either the Program or any derivative
>>work under copyright law"?
>
>
>No, I did not understand that that's what you thought the quotes
>meant.
>
>Now that you've explained that, I understand that that's what you
>think the quotes mean, but I disagree with you.
>
>The quotes mean that the phrase has a special significance. You've
>given a valid definition of that phrase, but that's the definition
>of the whole phrase, not the quotes.
You are showing that you have little experience with legalese :-) In
any contract or offer to a contract (even in Brazilian Portuguese,
where punctuation rules are somewhat different from English), when
you put a term in quotes and follow it with a definition, and re-use
the quoted term throughout the text, that first (quoted) appearance
is to be considered the definition of the term for use in the text.
This is praxis, and it seems to be very widespread.
>
>>And that an attempt is then made to paraphrase (restate, whatever)
>>the latter phrase, and that restatement is just plain wrong?
>
>
>You've yet to show why the restatement is wrong.
The restatement is wrong because it's not a re-statetement. To be a
re-statement it should STATE THE SAME THING. As "a work containing
the Program or a portion of it, either verbatim or with
modifications and/or translated into another language" is not
the same thing as "the Program or any derivative work under
copyright law", it cannot be a re-statement.
HTH,
Massa
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