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Re: Bug#265352: grub: Debian splash images for Grub

Edmund GRIMLEY EVANS wrote:
> Josh Triplett <josh.trip@verizon.net>:
>>Please note that I did not say that a work is non-free if it can be
>>transformed to contain a trademarked item, any more than a work is
>>non-free if it can be transformed to contain a copyrighted work to which
>>we don't have a Free license, such as the source code to Microsoft(TM)
>>Windows(TM). :)
> This doesn't really make sense. The only way you can transform a work
> to contain a different copyrighted work is by including parts of the
> other copyrighted work, which means you're transforming that other
> work, not just the first work. The comparison between trademarks and
> patents makes some sense; this comparison with copyright doesn't.

My point is that I'm only concerned with trademarks that already cover
the work, just as I'm only concerned with copyrighted works already
included in the work.  Whether you can transform the work to be covered
by another trademark, just as whether you can transform the work by
including another copyrighted work, depends on the license of that other
trademark or other copyrighted work, and is irrelevant to the freeness
of the existing work as it stands.

>>I am only concerned with whether a given work, and all derived works of
>>that work, have permission to use the trademark.
> Which trademark? Trademarkedness isn't a property of the work;
> trademarks exist independently of the work.

Any trademark that already covers the work in question.

>>I have no problem with Debian holding and licensing rights under both
>>trademarks and copyrights that apply to Debian's works.
> The whole point of a trademark restriction is that it doesn't just
> apply to one's own works.

But the only works to which it is relevant that the trademark license be
DFSG-free are those works that are shipped in Debian main, and all
derivatives of those works.

>>Therefore, if
>>we want to ship the logo in main, we need to grant a DFSG-Free license
>>to the logo itself and to derived works of the logo.
> Why the "if" clause? Debian owning a trademark is a restriction on all
> works whether or not they include a representation of the trademark
> and whether or not Debian ships them, so surely what you are really
> saying is that Debian should not restrict the world's freedom by
> owning a trademark, which seems to me like a reasonable, if extreme,
> point of view.

Do not put words in my mouth; I am most certainly not saying or
advocating that.  I am only stating that in order to ship the logo in
main, it must be DFSG-free, and a necessary condition for the logo to be
DFSG-free is that the trademark license must be DFSG-free.

- Josh Triplett

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