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Bug#676792: closed by Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> (Re: Bug#676792: dm_mod: Unknown symbol scsi_verify_blk_ioctl)



Indeed. I did not notice this. Now I have a new bug for you:

For some reason, 

  apt-get install --reinstall linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64

does not write all files in /boot:

v5:/boot# ll
total 14M
drwxr-xr-x  3 root root 4.0K Jun  9 15:09 ./
drwxr-xr-x 23 root root 4.0K Jun  8 22:31 ../
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 1.6M May  6 11:24 System.map-2.6.32-5-amd64
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 104K May  6 11:24 config-2.6.32-5-amd64
drwxr-xr-x  3 root root 4.0K Jun  9 15:09 grub/
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 9.6M Jun  9 15:09 initrd.img-2.6.32-5-amd64
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 2.4M May  6 11:18 vmlinuz-2.6.32-5-amd64
v5:/boot# 

You can see that vmlinuz-2.6.32-5-amd64, config-2.6.32-5-amd64
and System.map-2.6.32-5-amd64 are old, while initrd.img-2.6.32-5-amd64
has been updated. That strikes me as wrong for --reinstall. 

That also leaves the question of how I can upgrade these files.
Do a purge and install new?

Arno



On Sat, Jun 09, 2012 at 12:51:32PM +0000, Debian Bug Tracking System wrote:
> This is an automatic notification regarding your Bug report
> which was filed against the linux-2.6 package:
> 
> #676792: dm_mod: Unknown symbol scsi_verify_blk_ioctl
> 
> It has been closed by Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk>.
> 
> Their explanation is attached below along with your original report.
> If this explanation is unsatisfactory and you have not received a
> better one in a separate message then please contact Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> by
> replying to this email.
> 
> 
> -- 
> 676792: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=676792
> Debian Bug Tracking System
> Contact owner@bugs.debian.org with problems

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Message-ID: <1339246104.21665.148.camel@deadeye.wl.decadent.org.uk>
Subject: Re: Bug#676792: dm_mod: Unknown symbol scsi_verify_blk_ioctl
From: Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk>
To: 676792-done@bugs.debian.org
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2012 13:48:24 +0100
In-Reply-To: <[🔎] 20120609114938.21326.23212.reportbug@vsrv18659.customer.xenway.de>
References: 
	<[🔎] 20120609114938.21326.23212.reportbug@vsrv18659.customer.xenway.de>
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> 
> On Sat, 2012-06-09 at 13:49 +0200, Arno Wagner wrote:
> > Package: linux-2.6
> > Version: 2.6.32-45
> > Severity: important
> > 
> > 
> > I have a KVM Vserver with minimal Debian 6.0 installed.
> > It refuses to load the device mapper module. I googled this
> > and failed. I also failed to find a Debian bug-report about this.
> > Reinstalling the kernel package did not have any effect.
> [...]
> > -- Package-specific info:
> > ** Version:
> > Linux version 2.6.32-5-amd64 (Debian 2.6.32-39) (dannf@debian.org) (gcc version 4.3.5 (Debian 4.3.5-4) ) #1 SMP Thu Nov 3 03:41:26 UTC 2011
> [...]
> 
> This says you are running the kernel from package version 2.6.32-39.
> You must reboot to complete the upgrade.
> 
> If you are using an unusual boot loader configuration, for example the
> kernel is loaded from outside the filesystem, then you will need to copy
> the new kernel image (/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.32-5-amd64) to the appropriate
> location.
> 
> Ben.
> 
> -- 
> Ben Hutchings
> 73.46% of all statistics are made up.



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From: Arno Wagner <arno@wagner.name>
To: Debian Bug Tracking System <submit@bugs.debian.org>
Subject: dm_mod: Unknown symbol scsi_verify_blk_ioctl
Message-ID: <[🔎] 20120609114938.21326.23212.reportbug@vsrv18659.customer.xenway.de>
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> 
> Package: linux-2.6
> Version: 2.6.32-45
> Severity: important
> 
> 
> I have a KVM Vserver with minimal Debian 6.0 installed.
> It refuses to load the device mapper module. I googled this
> and failed. I also failed to find a Debian bug-report about this.
> Reinstalling the kernel package did not have any effect.
> 
> 
> -- Package-specific info:
> ** Version:
> Linux version 2.6.32-5-amd64 (Debian 2.6.32-39) (dannf@debian.org) (gcc version 4.3.5 (Debian 4.3.5-4) ) #1 SMP Thu Nov 3 03:41:26 UTC 2011
> 
> ** Command line:
> BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.32-5-amd64 root=/dev/vda2 ro quiet
> 
> ** Not tainted
> 
> ** Kernel log:
> [    0.313134] TCP cubic registered
> [    0.313316] NET: Registered protocol family 10
> [    0.314095] Mobile IPv6
> [    0.314101] NET: Registered protocol family 17
> [    0.314221] PM: Resume from disk failed.
> [    0.314235] registered taskstats version 1
> [    0.314595] rtc_cmos 00:01: setting system clock to 2012-06-08 19:52:08 UTC (1339185128)
> [    0.314631] Initalizing network drop monitor service
> [    0.314695] Freeing unused kernel memory: 592k freed
> [    0.314997] Write protecting the kernel read-only data: 4236k
> [    0.333080] udev[56]: starting version 164
> [    0.424270] usbcore: registered new interface driver usbfs
> [    0.424301] usbcore: registered new interface driver hub
> [    0.424687] usbcore: registered new device driver usb
> [    0.424890] ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [LNKC] enabled at IRQ 11
> [    0.424916] virtio-pci 0000:00:03.0: PCI INT A -> Link[LNKC] -> GSI 11 (level, high) -> IRQ 11
> [    0.424957] virtio-pci 0000:00:03.0: setting latency timer to 64
> [    0.425291] ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [LNKD] enabled at IRQ 10
> [    0.425309] virtio-pci 0000:00:04.0: PCI INT A -> Link[LNKD] -> GSI 10 (level, high) -> IRQ 10
> [    0.425334] virtio-pci 0000:00:04.0: setting latency timer to 64
> [    0.425754] ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [LNKA] enabled at IRQ 10
> [    0.425760] virtio-pci 0000:00:05.0: PCI INT A -> Link[LNKA] -> GSI 10 (level, high) -> IRQ 10
> [    0.425789] virtio-pci 0000:00:05.0: setting latency timer to 64
> [    0.426377] ehci_hcd: USB 2.0 'Enhanced' Host Controller (EHCI) Driver
> [    0.438310] uhci_hcd: USB Universal Host Controller Interface driver
> [    0.438375] uhci_hcd 0000:00:01.2: PCI INT D -> Link[LNKD] -> GSI 10 (level, high) -> IRQ 10
> [    0.438396] uhci_hcd 0000:00:01.2: setting latency timer to 64
> [    0.438410] uhci_hcd 0000:00:01.2: UHCI Host Controller
> [    0.438660] uhci_hcd 0000:00:01.2: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1
> [    0.438760] uhci_hcd 0000:00:01.2: irq 10, io base 0x0000c040
> [    0.438832] usb usb1: New USB device found, idVendor=1d6b, idProduct=0001
> [    0.438835] usb usb1: New USB device strings: Mfr=3, Product=2, SerialNumber=1
> [    0.438837] usb usb1: Product: UHCI Host Controller
> [    0.438839] usb usb1: Manufacturer: Linux 2.6.32-5-amd64 uhci_hcd
> [    0.438841] usb usb1: SerialNumber: 0000:00:01.2
> [    0.438985] usb usb1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
> [    0.439041] hub 1-0:1.0: USB hub found
> [    0.439049] hub 1-0:1.0: 2 ports detected
> [    0.440375] SCSI subsystem initialized
> [    0.440637]   alloc irq_desc for 24 on node -1
> [    0.440639]   alloc kstat_irqs on node -1
> [    0.440669] virtio-pci 0000:00:04.0: irq 24 for MSI/MSI-X
> [    0.440671]   alloc irq_desc for 25 on node -1
> [    0.440672]   alloc kstat_irqs on node -1
> [    0.440689] virtio-pci 0000:00:04.0: irq 25 for MSI/MSI-X
> [    0.458365] FDC 0 is a S82078B
> [    0.472865]   alloc irq_desc for 26 on node -1
> [    0.472868]   alloc kstat_irqs on node -1
> [    0.472907] virtio-pci 0000:00:03.0: irq 26 for MSI/MSI-X
> [    0.472910]   alloc irq_desc for 27 on node -1
> [    0.472911]   alloc kstat_irqs on node -1
> [    0.472958] virtio-pci 0000:00:03.0: irq 27 for MSI/MSI-X
> [    0.472961]   alloc irq_desc for 28 on node -1
> [    0.472963]   alloc kstat_irqs on node -1
> [    0.472988] virtio-pci 0000:00:03.0: irq 28 for MSI/MSI-X
> [    0.473203]  vda: vda1 vda2
> [    0.482863] libata version 3.00 loaded.
> [    0.484849] ata_piix 0000:00:01.1: version 2.13
> [    0.503740] ata_piix 0000:00:01.1: setting latency timer to 64
> [    0.504395] scsi0 : ata_piix
> [    0.504557] scsi1 : ata_piix
> [    0.504588] ata1: PATA max MWDMA2 cmd 0x1f0 ctl 0x3f6 bmdma 0xc0a0 irq 14
> [    0.504590] ata2: PATA max MWDMA2 cmd 0x170 ctl 0x376 bmdma 0xc0a8 irq 15
> [    0.749039] usb 1-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 2
> [    0.753407] kjournald starting.  Commit interval 5 seconds
> [    0.753437] EXT3-fs: mounted filesystem with ordered data mode.
> [    0.957888] usb 1-1: New USB device found, idVendor=0627, idProduct=0001
> [    0.957892] usb 1-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=3, SerialNumber=5
> [    0.957895] usb 1-1: Product: QEMU USB Tablet
> [    0.957897] usb 1-1: Manufacturer: QEMU 1.0
> [    0.957899] usb 1-1: SerialNumber: 42
> [    0.957980] usb 1-1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
> [    1.597868] udev[441]: starting version 164
> [    1.772673] input: Power Button as /devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXPWRBN:00/input/input2
> [    1.772681] ACPI: Power Button [PWRF]
> [    1.823727] processor LNXCPU:00: registered as cooling_device0
> [    1.823903] processor LNXCPU:01: registered as cooling_device1
> [    2.099641] usbcore: registered new interface driver hiddev
> [    2.124957] input: QEMU 1.0 QEMU USB Tablet as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:01.2/usb1/1-1/1-1:1.0/input/input3
> [    2.125050] generic-usb 0003:0627:0001.0001: input,hidraw0: USB HID v0.01 Pointer [QEMU 1.0 QEMU USB Tablet] on usb-0000:00:01.2-1/input0
> [    2.125074] usbcore: registered new interface driver usbhid
> [    2.125076] usbhid: v2.6:USB HID core driver
> [    2.151004] input: PC Speaker as /devices/platform/pcspkr/input/input4
> [    2.215479] piix4_smbus 0000:00:01.3: SMBus Host Controller at 0xb100, revision 0
> [    2.318498] Error: Driver 'pcspkr' is already registered, aborting...
> [    2.382790] input: ImExPS/2 Generic Explorer Mouse as /devices/platform/i8042/serio1/input/input5
> [    2.571530] Adding 248824k swap on /dev/vda1.  Priority:-1 extents:1 across:248824k 
> [    2.623580] EXT3 FS on vda2, internal journal
> [    2.667534] loop: module loaded
> [   13.824046] eth0: no IPv6 routers present
> [ 1789.628345] SGI XFS with ACLs, security attributes, realtime, large block/inode numbers, no debug enabled
> [ 1789.630333] SGI XFS Quota Management subsystem
> [ 1789.634130] JFS: nTxBlock = 8024, nTxLock = 64197
> [ 1789.646780] NTFS driver 2.1.29 [Flags: R/W MODULE].
> [ 1789.656254] QNX4 filesystem 0.2.3 registered.
> [ 1789.667867] Btrfs loaded
> [ 2393.467651] dm_mod: Unknown symbol scsi_verify_blk_ioctl
> [55698.548126] dm_mod: Unknown symbol scsi_verify_blk_ioctl
> [56341.858350] dm_mod: Unknown symbol scsi_verify_blk_ioctl
> [57053.612266] dm_mod: Unknown symbol scsi_verify_blk_ioctl
> 
> ** Model information
> sys_vendor: Bochs
> product_name: Bochs
> product_version: 
> chassis_vendor: Bochs
> chassis_version: 
> bios_vendor: Bochs
> bios_version: Bochs
> 
> ** Loaded modules:
> Module                  Size  Used by
> btrfs                 375821  0 
> zlib_deflate           17746  1 btrfs
> crc32c                  2560  1 
> libcrc32c               1074  1 btrfs
> ufs                    56474  0 
> qnx4                    6194  0 
> hfsplus                65270  0 
> hfs                    37535  0 
> minix                  21197  0 
> ntfs                  162796  0 
> vfat                    7884  0 
> msdos                   6202  0 
> fat                    40038  2 vfat,msdos
> jfs                   140121  0 
> xfs                   435593  0 
> exportfs                3170  1 xfs
> reiserfs              194124  0 
> ext4                  288382  0 
> jbd2                   67111  1 ext4
> crc16                   1319  1 ext4
> ext2                   52905  0 
> loop                   11799  0 
> snd_pcm                60487  0 
> snd_timer              15598  1 snd_pcm
> snd                    46526  2 snd_pcm,snd_timer
> i2c_piix4               8328  0 
> i2c_core               15819  1 i2c_piix4
> soundcore               4598  1 snd
> snd_page_alloc          6249  1 snd_pcm
> joydev                  8459  0 
> pcspkr                  1699  0 
> virtio_balloon          2961  0 
> usbhid                 33292  0 
> hid                    63257  1 usbhid
> evdev                   7352  2 
> psmouse                49937  0 
> serio_raw               3752  0 
> processor              29935  0 
> button                  4650  0 
> ext3                  106710  1 
> jbd                    37221  1 ext3
> mbcache                 5050  3 ext4,ext2,ext3
> ata_generic             3239  0 
> ata_piix               21124  0 
> libata                133776  2 ata_generic,ata_piix
> virtio_net             10573  0 
> virtio_blk              4225  3 
> floppy                 49087  0 
> scsi_mod              126533  1 libata
> uhci_hcd               18521  0 
> ehci_hcd               32081  0 
> virtio_pci              5511  0 
> virtio_ring             3258  1 virtio_pci
> virtio                  3309  4 virtio_balloon,virtio_net,virtio_blk,virtio_pci
> usbcore               122674  4 usbhid,uhci_hcd,ehci_hcd
> nls_base                6377  7 hfsplus,hfs,ntfs,vfat,fat,jfs,usbcore
> thermal                11674  0 
> thermal_sys            11942  2 processor,thermal
> 
> ** PCI devices:
> 00:00.0 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation 440FX - 82441FX PMC [Natoma] [8086:1237] (rev 02)
> 	Subsystem: Red Hat, Inc Qemu virtual machine [1af4:1100]
> 	Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster- SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx-
> 	Status: Cap- 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B- ParErr- DEVSEL=fast >TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR- INTx-
> 
> 00:01.0 ISA bridge [0601]: Intel Corporation 82371SB PIIX3 ISA [Natoma/Triton II] [8086:7000]
> 	Subsystem: Red Hat, Inc Qemu virtual machine [1af4:1100]
> 	Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster- SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx-
> 	Status: Cap- 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B- ParErr- DEVSEL=medium >TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR- INTx-
> 
> 00:01.1 IDE interface [0101]: Intel Corporation 82371SB PIIX3 IDE [Natoma/Triton II] [8086:7010] (prog-if 80 [Master])
> 	Subsystem: Red Hat, Inc Qemu virtual machine [1af4:1100]
> 	Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx-
> 	Status: Cap- 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium >TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR- INTx-
> 	Latency: 0
> 	Region 0: [virtual] Memory at 000001f0 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=8]
> 	Region 1: [virtual] Memory at 000003f0 (type 3, non-prefetchable) [size=1]
> 	Region 2: [virtual] Memory at 00000170 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=8]
> 	Region 3: [virtual] Memory at 00000370 (type 3, non-prefetchable) [size=1]
> 	Region 4: I/O ports at c0a0 [size=16]
> 	Kernel driver in use: ata_piix
> 
> 00:01.2 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation 82371SB PIIX3 USB [Natoma/Triton II] [8086:7020] (rev 01) (prog-if 00 [UHCI])
> 	Subsystem: Red Hat, Inc Qemu virtual machine [1af4:1100]
> 	Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx-
> 	Status: Cap- 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B- ParErr- DEVSEL=fast >TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR- INTx-
> 	Latency: 0
> 	Interrupt: pin D routed to IRQ 10
> 	Region 4: I/O ports at c040 [size=32]
> 	Kernel driver in use: uhci_hcd
> 
> 00:01.3 Bridge [0680]: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ACPI [8086:7113] (rev 03)
> 	Subsystem: Red Hat, Inc Qemu virtual machine [1af4:1100]
> 	Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster- SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx-
> 	Status: Cap- 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium >TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR- INTx-
> 	Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 9
> 	Kernel driver in use: piix4_smbus
> 
> 00:03.0 Ethernet controller [0200]: Red Hat, Inc Virtio network device [1af4:1000]
> 	Subsystem: Red Hat, Inc Device [1af4:0001]
> 	Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx+
> 	Status: Cap+ 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B- ParErr- DEVSEL=fast >TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR- INTx-
> 	Latency: 0
> 	Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 11
> 	Region 0: I/O ports at c060 [size=32]
> 	Region 1: Memory at ffff0000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
> 	Expansion ROM at 40000000 [disabled] [size=64K]
> 	Capabilities: [40] MSI-X: Enable+ Count=3 Masked-
> 		Vector table: BAR=1 offset=00000000
> 		PBA: BAR=1 offset=00000800
> 	Kernel driver in use: virtio-pci
> 
> 00:04.0 SCSI storage controller [0100]: Red Hat, Inc Virtio block device [1af4:1001]
> 	Subsystem: Red Hat, Inc Device [1af4:0002]
> 	Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx+
> 	Status: Cap+ 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B- ParErr- DEVSEL=fast >TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR- INTx-
> 	Latency: 0
> 	Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 10
> 	Region 0: I/O ports at c000 [size=64]
> 	Region 1: Memory at ffff1000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
> 	Capabilities: [40] MSI-X: Enable+ Count=2 Masked-
> 		Vector table: BAR=1 offset=00000000
> 		PBA: BAR=1 offset=00000800
> 	Kernel driver in use: virtio-pci
> 
> 00:05.0 RAM memory [0500]: Red Hat, Inc Virtio memory balloon [1af4:1002]
> 	Subsystem: Red Hat, Inc Device [1af4:0005]
> 	Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx-
> 	Status: Cap- 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B- ParErr- DEVSEL=fast >TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR- INTx-
> 	Latency: 0
> 	Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 10
> 	Region 0: I/O ports at c080 [size=32]
> 	Kernel driver in use: virtio-pci
> 
> 
> ** USB devices:
> Bus 001 Device 002: ID 0627:0001 Adomax Technology Co., Ltd 
> Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
> 
> 
> -- System Information:
> Debian Release: 6.0.5
>   APT prefers stable-updates
>   APT policy: (500, 'stable-updates'), (500, 'stable')
> Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)
> 
> Kernel: Linux 2.6.32-5-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU cores)
> Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C (charmap=ANSI_X3.4-1968)
> Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
> 
> Versions of packages linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64 depends on:
> ii  debconf [debconf-2.0]         1.5.36.1   Debian configuration management sy
> ii  initramfs-tools [linux-initra 0.98.8     tools for generating an initramfs
> ii  linux-base                    2.6.32-45  Linux image base package
> ii  module-init-tools             3.12-2     tools for managing Linux kernel mo
> 
> Versions of packages linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64 recommends:
> pn  firmware-linux-free           <none>     (no description available)
> 
> Versions of packages linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64 suggests:
> pn  grub | lilo                   <none>     (no description available)
> pn  linux-doc-2.6.32              <none>     (no description available)
> 
> Versions of packages linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64 is related to:
> pn  firmware-bnx2                 <none>     (no description available)
> pn  firmware-bnx2x                <none>     (no description available)
> pn  firmware-ipw2x00              <none>     (no description available)
> pn  firmware-ivtv                 <none>     (no description available)
> pn  firmware-iwlwifi              <none>     (no description available)
> pn  firmware-linux                <none>     (no description available)
> pn  firmware-linux-nonfree        <none>     (no description available)
> pn  firmware-qlogic               <none>     (no description available)
> pn  firmware-ralink               <none>     (no description available)
> pn  xen-hypervisor                <none>     (no description available)
> 
> -- debconf information:
>   linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64/postinst/ignoring-do-bootloader-2.6.32-5-amd64:
>   linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64/postinst/depmod-error-initrd-2.6.32-5-amd64: false
>   linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64/prerm/removing-running-kernel-2.6.32-5-amd64: true
>   linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64/postinst/missing-firmware-2.6.32-5-amd64:
> 
> 


-- 
Arno Wagner, Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform., CISSP -- Email: arno@wagner.name 
GnuPG:  ID: 1E25338F  FP: 0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C  0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
----
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty 
are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled 
with doubt and indecision. -- Bertrand Russell 

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