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Re: Another level of agression ?

On Monday 28 May 2007 16:19, Sven Luther wrote:

Hi !
I'm not involved in your job at all, but I am a member of debian-kernel list 
because I like to read about : "What is new in this area ?" What I can see 
here is only personal issues unfortunately. I am telling You it is not worth 
it... People you are professionals !!! you should work and think how I should 
solve this problem or how I should solve out that one... .  
Listen, I know something about C and C++ programming and I have to much free 
time but even with this nobody probably will not invite me to the team like 
You have created, so I feel myself very pour reading about things like 

Pawel Krzywicki

> On Mon, May 28, 2007 at 01:03:29PM +0200, Joey Schulze wrote:
> > Sven Luther wrote:
> > > > After some more pressure on IRC, your commit access has been
> > > > restored.
> > >
> > > It is not enough, i want the suspension revoked, since it was a stupid
> > > decision, which has achieved nothing except worsen the situation, and
> > > was taken contrary to the DAMs procedure, and in a shady and mysterious
> > > way.
> >
> > Oh come on Sven!  This thread was about the accidential removal of your
> > kernel team commit access.  It has been restored since them.  The problem
> > is fixed.
> The wider problem has been there since marsch last year or so, and it
> was never fixed.
> > Tell you what, if you continue trolling and ranting here, sooner or later
> > your commit access will be removed *on purpose* with no way for you to
> > get it back.  This is not a threat but a warning.
> Yeah, right, is it so difficult to solve this as it should have been ?
> Do you really believe there is any valid justification to having me
> suspended for a year despite the 70:7 strong opposition of the DDs who
> where asked to express themselves ? What did it gain, and what was the
> reason that made the DAMs decide this way ? Appart that the expulsers
> provided more hatefull and agressive quotes than the those opposing the
> expulsion, and the DAMs chose to put them in value.
> Do you believe it was correct for the expulsers to ask for my expulsion
> on the day after i proposed my DPL candidacy, while i had not posted a
> single post on the debian lists for over a month ? And that the DAMs
> chose to hide this for whatevr obscure reason ?
> > We know that you're not happy with the situation, but continueing to
> > bring it up will not solve it either.
> >
> > Please don't reply and work on important things instead.
> Yeah, right, which is what i have been trying to do since over a year,
> first i worked, and provided over 30 or so patches to d-i despite the
> d-i access removal, just to get bashed in half the report by a clueless
> frans who jumped on every little excuse to explode, and finally made
> some under-hand manipulation with the ftp-masters to remove my upload
> right of the .udebs. This is what i did when i wrote the wiki page :
> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/FransPopAndOthersVs%2eSvenLutherIssu
> and got FUCK YOU and "the biggest load of self-satisfied and
> self-centered crap I've ever seen" from frans, and abuse from geert and
> holger (which they removed in shame later on), and blackmail of joeyh in
> return.
> This is what i did in february, organizing hardware for the debian
> booth, passing time to prepare the ps3 debian install, on the ps3 that
> geert uutyeroven had arranged, and geert stappers or holger found the
> occasion to bash me when i once posted to the list by mistake while
> searching for a TV set.
> I did this while those hateful expulsers secretely where scheming to
> restart the expulsion procedure, while on saturday evening the DAMs had
> sent me a mail which got eaten by the debian.org mail greylisting or
> whatever, and while i spoke to James Troup on sunday afternoon, after
> having hold a discussion about the future possibilities of the kernel
> developments, of which nobody from the d-i team assisted except holger,
> who was forced to film, and frans passed by me without returning my
> greeting afterward.
> I did this while the expulsion process was underway and posted only few
> select mails, and even was mostly silent for the week or two that
> followed the end of the support mail period, waiting for the DAMs to
> decide in frustration and trauma, while Frans started agressing me on
> the lists again.
> I was doing this when i discovered this latest case.
> So, for me, now, in debian, the most important thing, is that this
> continuous agression are stopped, that each party in this is blamed
> accordying to their responsabilities, in a fair and equitable way, and
> that the one-sided punishment are lifted, and that we are all allowed to
> work on the parts of debian that we like and code all happily forever
> after.
> Can you tell me a single reason why this should not happen ? Can you
> tell me a single reason that justifies the DAMs decision to act as they
> did, and which can be named without shame (i know that one reason of the
> decision is the fact that the other party threatened to stop all d-i
> related work if they didn't get their way, just as Joey Hess has written
> on the wiki and that this would have caused a problem so near the etch
> release, i also know that Joerg Jaspert (and others) heavily disliked
> Anthony Towns, and thus it could justify the manipulation of the dates
> of the expulsers mail, to make it appear as if this was Anthony's
> action, but these are hardly noble reasons we can approve of, don't we) ?
> Joey, if you see this kind of attitude in real life, while you really
> stand by, and counsel the victim to support everything and be silent,
> especially as you being a pillar of the community, can act to change it ?
> This is not some unnamed oppression by a state or power we have no
> access too, this is unfairness, as Wouter so aptly names it, done by
> Debian, and as thus approved by the tacit approval of every DD,
> including yourself.
> So, what will be done to solve this issue, or should it be left open
> like a bleeding wound to fester and worsen so much longer ? Isn't it
> time to solve this in a fair and human way, like it should have been
> done last year ? And no, you cannot blame Anthony Towns for all the evil
> this time around.
> Saddened,
> Sven Luther

Etch Debian User: Pawel"at"Wartan"dot"org
kadu:3735326 Registered Linux User : 406139 |PLUG :1966491030
GnuPG | pub 1024D/2AAB159B
Home Page: http://www.wartan.org

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