Does Debian support non free JVM's? (was: Re: Bug#273560: ant: test-reports fails with JDK 1.5)
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Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:56:16 +0200,
Simon Martin <simon.martin@gmx.at> wrote:
> it seems that 'ant test-reports' does not work with JDK 1.5.
>
> $ java -version
> java version "1.5.0-beta"
> Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.5.0-beta-b32c)
> Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.5.0-beta-b32c, mixed mode)
>
> Stefan Bodewig has already [1] realized the bug and [2][3]fixed it.
>
> [1] http://stefanbodewig.blogger.de/20040602/
> [2] http://stefanbodewig.blogger.de/20040625/
> [3] http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/ant/WHATSNEW?rev=1.632&view=markup
>
> As it's not clear when the next ant version released, I think that a
> debian package including the cvs-fixes would be nice.
Hi,
First, thanks to Simon Martin for his bug report.
I read the subject of this mail nearly twice a week or more and I
hesitate to answer or not. I doubt because this bug report raise another
question: does Debian support non-free JDK?
I'd like to answer NO! But there is something schizophrenic in DFSG#4:
,----[ /usr/share/doc/debian/social-contract.txt ]
| 4. Our priorities are our users and free software
| We will be guided by the needs of our users and the free software
| community. We will place their interests first in our priorities.
| We will support the needs of our users for operation in many
| different kinds of computing environments. We will not object to
| non-free works that are intended to be used on Debian systems, or
| attempt to charge a fee to people who create or use such
| works. We will allow others to create distributions containing
| both the Debian system and other works, without any fee from
| us. In furtherance of these goals, we will provide an integrated
| system of high-quality materials with no legal restrictions that
| would prevent such uses of the system.
`----
So our users seems to need JDK1.5 (or should I call it JDK5.0?) but
it's clear it's not free software at all! Also, if we support non free
JDK's, I doubt people will test free JVM's and file bug reports against
them (and that's what we need more: this simple test case works with non
free JVM, but it does not work with free JVM). All these little
test cases improves free JVM's a lot to find bugs and things not working
as it should.
Well, trust our users and hope free software is also a part of their
goal. The other problem is time and ports:
o I'd like to have more time to spend managing my packages, improve
them and so on...
o I'm running powerpc and so I cannot test no JDK5.0 (or JDK1.5?)
The latest I can run is the 1.4.2 from IBM and I had a lot of
troubles with it[1]. Someone helped me and now it's nearly ok.
I'm not a debian-patch robot. I cannot only apply patch and upload the
result packages, I need to test them and if it's not possible, I should
not upload packages. I'm doing this with java-package but I can do it in
a limited way: only for simple batch patches I can see the result is
valid.
All this to say, personally, I'll not work on bugs related to non-free
software. Yes java-package is in contrib, but it is a package to build a
package that is completely non free, don't play with words! Because, 1)
I don't have time; 2) I cannot test!
With this email, I know I'm on the «free software» side, not on «our
users» side. I regret this and encourage other debian developers to be
on the «our users» side... if they want to.
One thing I can do is to look at patches when I have time. So please,
«our users», continue submitting patches and bug reports, but you have
to know these ones are very low priority.
Side note: you can argue this distro does it, why Debian does not?
That's the way it is! I'm sorry I do not have another
answer. We do work on Debian on our spare time. No one is
paid to work on it. Of course we love our distro and we all
think it's one of the better. But also remember it's free
software, «competition» or «competitive» does not take the
same sense here!.. or Sarge would be released last year with
400 RC Bugs! Who wants that?!
[1] http://www.livejournal.com/users/avdyk/6508.html
- --
.''`.
: :' :rnaud
`. `'
`-
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