Re: [PROPOSAL] New Virtual Packages and way to handle Classpath
Hallo Jan,
--- Jan Schulz <default@katzien.de> wrote:
> Hallo Dalibor,
>
> * Dalibor Topic wrote:
> >> * makes all our packages working with every JVM, which will run it:
> >> . free ones
> >> . unfree ones by a well defined API and a installer script
> >that's a great goal. it needs people who test & build java programs on
> debian
> >on every java implementation in debian. I believe some of that could be
> >actually done automatically, like the buildd setup for normal packages.
> [nice idea about a buildd like infrastruckture to test, whether it
> works on free VMs as well]
>
[snipped out good comments on why it won't work]
> All in all, I think we first need a better working policy, before we
> could start thinking about such a project.
Fair enough. I think that such a project is crucial to making free java
software work well in debian.
> I also think that this can only added 'next to' the packaging system,
> maybe sending the apropiated BTS mails ('Wishlist: Your package is compiling
> with XYZ now' 'Grave: Kaffe will not build 'XYZ' anymore'). Again,
> this needs well defiend interfaces so that this here is not anymore
> nessesary:
>
> in debian/rules
> |JAVA_HOME_DIRS="..."
> CDBS, ant classes:
> JAVA_HOME = $(shell for jh in $(JAVA_HOME_DIRS); do if [ -d "$$jh" ]; \
> then echo $${jh}; exit 0; fi; done)
>
> This is basicly the workaround in every java package I've seen so far.
> In eclipse debian/rules, I've a similar line in (but I Build-Depend on
> BD Java) and its repeated in /usr/bin/eclipse [1]. It only works
> with BD packages, as we know the place, where they are added. Free VMs
> would need to be complient to JAVA_HOME use (gcj isn't...), work with
> ant (Kaffe? Sable VM?).
What do jh and JAVA_HOME do (in this case)? What does eclipse need JAVA_HOME
for?
> >noble goal, but as I explained in the other mail, there are
> >differences in the behaviour that some java/javac implements. Some of
> >it is intentional.
>
> BTW, does kaffe support '-cp'? I just had a bugreport about this
> (actually that eclipse "does not work" because it fell back to
> /usr/bin/java, which was kaffe)
Kaffe 1.1.1 does.
> BTW, javac 1.4.2 added that option as well...
Well, this raises the question what the interface to javac should be: the one
from javac 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 or 1.4, or 1.4.2? Should it include all options,
or just the important ones? And so on ... the same for java. Does debian's java
policy proposal cover that? Otherwise it would be useless in the eclipse vs.
-cp case ;)
> >Though, now I think the java build demon aproach is better, as it
> >actively figures out what works and what doesn't instead of relying on
> >API descriptions.
>
> The Mainatainer of the package will be the "Java Build Demon". :/
> Hopefully helped by as much policy and helper scripts as possible...
I think that puts too much burden on the maintainer. Having a good policy is
all well, but without actually being able to confirm that a package works with
a VM on say superh-linux, it's not really helpful, beside placing additional
buerocratic load on the maintainer, I think.
> >> First of all, it will work with packages like xerces, which already
> >> now can be updated 'endorsed dir' or so, or simple adding a newer
> >> version to bootclasspath.
> >fine, but for example you can't put xerces into kaffe's bootclasspath as its
> >licensed under GPL-incompatible ASF license.
>
> Not even with a java -bootclasspath `getclasspath --boot` -cp ... at
> packaging level (by Depending on the debian xerces package)?
>
> If thats not possible, I simple give up... :(
No, I'm not saying it's not technically possible, you're just not allowed to do
it/distribute it by the provision of the conflicting free software licenses
involved.
> >they set it because they want their internal compiler instead of sun's. if
> >build.compiler is not set, it default to sun's compiler.
>
> Eclipse compiler is 'free', so we have already a Java1.4a/1.3 compiler,
> which passes all of suns 'testing Kits'... Maybe I should split this
> package out so that it can go into main.
it passes the regression tests from sun? do you have a link? how does it fare
on jikes' compiler test suite jacks?
the rhug guys sperated it out, and apparently made it faster than jikes by
compiling it with gcj ;)
cheers,
dalibor topic
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