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Re: [gene.l.forte@intel.com: Java on Debian]


Wichert wrote and asked if I could help answer your questions. The
first thing you should understand about the design strategy of Debian
is that our goal is to produce a 100% Open Source platform. In that
sense, some of these tools are not available in the standard Debian
distribution for licensing reasons as opposed to some technical

That said, basically all of the technologies you are asking about can
be or are available for Debian immediately. In order to usefully
answer your question, however, I will give you a status from an Open
Source availability perspective.

Java1 JVM/JIT:    
  Kaffe 1.0.5 is largely feature complete and now includes support for
  RMI. I am not clear as to whether Kaffe's serialization is "pin
  compatible" with Sun's implementation in all cases so there may be
  interoperation issues in some casses.

Java2 native compiler:
  I am unclear whether "native" compiler refers to the adaptive JIT
  capabilities in Java2 or to a compiler that understands Java2
  semantics. In either case, Kaffe's JIT strategy is not adaptive but
  is still performant and becoming more so and I believe IBM's Jikes 
  compiler understands Java2 concepts such as weak references.

Java2 foundation libraries:
  Many of these components have been cloned under an Open Source
  license. Kaffe provides many of these routines, including an
  up-to-date RMI implementation. There are, however, definatly
  shortcomings. Swing, as far as I know, has not been cloned.

  There is activity in this area, the most noteworthy being the Open
  Source EJB implementation from Bull in France called Jonas. I have
  done some work with this system and it provides a good start towards
  a full EJB feature set. In particular, it provides a transaction
  monitor and a container based persistance implementation. I have
  used this system on Linux with free databases such as Postgresql. I
  have not been able to get the system fully operational on Kaffe.
  Additionally, the system depends on many Sun APIs which have not
  been cloned (JTA, JNDI, and EJB itself).

  I am only tangetally familiar with this API. From my shallow
  knowledge of the effort I understand that it is a system for
  controlling large scale, integrated communications infrastructures
  and modeling events with such networks via the JavaBeans API. The
  scale of this effort seems very large and encompasses the work of
  many organizations. The work is very new and seems to tie into Sun's
  SCSL strategy, which would lead me to believe that there is not
  much in the way of Open Source options in this area. However, some
  protocols such as H.323 are genuinely open and are even cloned so it
  is possible that chunks of the JAIN system may exist in a scattered
  manner. I personally have no knowledge of a serious Open Source
  implementation of RTP or the H.323 infrastructures in Java.

  Jini presents an especially pronounced Open Source problem. Jini is
  only available as source from Sun and that source is only available
  under the SCSL. The SCSL is not compatible in any sense with either
  the legal mechanics or the political spirit of Free Software. The
  SCSL also makes cloning the API of an SCSL implementation illegal
  which precludes even a clean room replication of Jini. If you are
  interested in "tuple space" type implementations there are Open
  Source options. We have even been working on one such system
  internally that we intend to turn loose as Open Source. We have used
  this system to produce "Jini-like" functionality, but cannot use
  Jini itself.

I hope that this provides some useful feedback for you. Please do not
hesitate to contact me if you have more questions.


On Tue, Oct 19, 1999 at 01:09:10AM +0200, Wichert Akkerman wrote:
> ----- Forwarded message from "Forte, Gene L" <gene.l.forte@intel.com> -----
> From: "Forte, Gene L" <gene.l.forte@intel.com>
> To: "'leader@debian.org'" <leader@debian.org>
> Subject: Java on Debian
> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:51:18 -0700
> Can you refer me to someone who can inform me about the status of Java on
> Debian...specifically, what is the availability of:
> Java 1 JBM.JIT
> Java 2 JVM/JIT
> Java 2 native compiler
> Java 2 foundation libraries (java.util, java.io, java.swing)
> Jini
> running on Intel-based platforms? what are your plans for these tools?
> > ------------------------
> > Gene L Forte
> > Strategic Marketing
> > Intel Corporation, Platform Tools Operation
> > 5350 N.E. Elam Young Parkway, MS EY2-13, Hillsboro, OR 97124-6461
> > (Tel) 503-696-2077, (Fax) 503-696-3730, (Mobile) 503-804-8546
> > Gene.L.Forte@mail.intel.com
> ----- End forwarded message -----

Ean Schuessler                                             As above
Novare International Inc.                                  so below
--- Some or all of the above signature may be a joke

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