Re: JFORK: Or a reasonable response to the Sun SCSL
On Tue, Sep 14, 1999 at 10:05:19PM -0700, Cris J. Holdorph wrote:
> This has been discussed before. I have pointed out that you do NOT need to
> sign the SCSL to purchase a book that describes the specification of the JVM
> and the Java 2 class libraries. It *IS* possible to fully implement these
> specs without agreeing to the SCSL.
Ok, to some extend you are correct and that is why I specifically said an
"optimally minimalized" fork. That is to say, those technologies which can
be cloned from Sun should be. For those APIs that can't, equivelent
technologies should be developed.
But I still don't think you are seeing the bigger picture of why the SCSL
is such a threat. The SCSL will cause a widespread proliferation of sources
that would otherwise be distributed to a very narrow audience. Since a
business can readily download the JDK source for "research" purposes, there
is a much greater chance that you may be exposed to SCSL covered code in
the course of your work. Your boss may require you to expose yourself to
SCSL covered code. Once you are exposed you will be subject to the terms
of the SCSL, including the implementation of specifications clause. Now,
maybe you can show me a way of getting specs from Sun that would waive you
of this liability, but I don't know where.
Even then, I don't think that will save you because of:
8.2 Merger. This License represents the complete agreement
concerning the subject matter hereof.
In the SCSL.
> Define "almost universally". I have NEVER signed the SCSL and I have free
> access (well maybe the purchase of a book) to the spec of the JVM and the
> Java class libraries that Sun's JDK 1.2 are based on.
Well, my copy of "Java1.2 Unleashed" doesn't grant the right to do anything
with anything in its copyright section. I would be curious to know what your
book says. Inspection of the actual 1.2.2 doc package, however, does say
that you can make a clean room implementation of their specs as long as you
follow them to the letter. The sticky part, however, are the extensions.
> Maybe. I would be surprised if they stopped publishing books though. And I
> would be even more surprised if they started requiring people to sign the
> SCSL to buy their book. I would also think the new standards group they went
> to (I forget the name) is going to accept their proposal to standardize
> Java if the JVM/Java class libraries spec is *ONLY* available under the
> SCSL.
Well, take a good hard look at Jini because it is clearly the future of
Java. Mr. Bill Joy has a pretty good fix on where things are headed with this
whole, small ubiquitous device idea that Jini is building on and you can't
touch Jini without coming into the snares of the SCSL. If Sun has their way,
in five years everything that isn't nailed down will be talking Jini the
way computers talk TCP/IP today and they will have it locked up tight as a
drum. In five years monolithic workstations will be almost an odditity and
even then used mainly by developer types.
> Oh yup, took the words right out of my mouth. I also send Sun signed
> blank checks every month. The day Sun starts charging for the JDK and/or
> the Spec it is based on, is the day I will begin a career change. I support
> free software, but I guess I am not as "commited" to the idea that any
> software that is "not free" is evil.
Well, there is a big difference between "not free" and "almost kinda sorta
free but you better get a lawyer, then again get three". Given the choice
I would rather have just plain old "not free", since I can actually figure
out what is going on there.
Look, all I am saying with this is that Sun is making a play to make Java
the business programming language of the future and they aren't doing to
bad a job of it. You need to look at where things are headed and not where
they are just right now. Sun buying Star Office is about enough icing on the
cake for me to see what is going down. Maybe I'm paranoid, but probably not.
E
--
__________________________________________________________________
Ean Schuessler A guy running Linux
Novare International Inc. A company running Linux
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