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Re: Re: OT: sorbs blacklisting scam

On Mon, 2006-05-01 at 02:55, Matthew Sullivan wrote:
> Auto-Replies (of the vacation type) to never used email addresses
> are the input to the spamtrap system are going to be listed - however 
> delisting is just a matter of notifying the SORBS  Admins (ie no fine, 
> and immediate)

Sounds good here, but anyone going to your website will have
been told they have to pay a $50 "fine" for delisting[1], no

> Spam from anyone will cause a listing - even Microsoft found this out - 
> however unlike you Mike, they logged a ticket, got on the phone to me, 
> got the information as to why they were listed, fixed the issue and got 
> delisted - all within 6 hours of listing.

Did Microsoft pay the "fine"?  Your website says "SORBS will
not delist you without paying the 'fine' for any of these

How many emails were lost during those six hours?  How many
hours were wasted resending emails lost during those six

Now multiply by all your other mistakes, large and small.
How much time, effort, money and sheer aggravation has your
simplistic RBL caused the human race?

Take SORBS offline until it's up to the standard of the
properly maintained RBLs.  Or at least make clear on
your home page what SORBS *really* does so that ISPs
aren't tempted to use it.  There is no mention that
SORBS stupidly lists backscatter, including backscatter
caused by compromise of SORBS' own honeypots.  If there
were, then ISPs would never touch it.  We too used SORBS
for a while until we realised that senders' complaints
were justified and that SORBS was blocking much more than

Just in case anyone is tempted to believe that your claims
today bear any resemblance to what you've been saying
for years on your website, I'll close with yet another
definition[2] of listing (no mention of backscatter) and
delisting ($50 fine per IP always required) from sorbs.net.
What you have posted is by your own admission today not
what you do.

--Mike Bird

[1] http://www.au.sorbs.net/faq/spamdb.shtml
[2] http://www.au.sorbs.net/overview.shtml

                   Spam Database[2]
Listing is manual and is performed when any spam is received at a SORBS
spamtrap. SORBS spamtraps include, but are not limited to, the private
email addresses of the SORBS admins. On occasion, when a particular
network is seen to be spamming and the listing of a single IP address
seems to have no effect, increasingly larger sections of the netblock
will be listed. If spamming continues, the size of the listing will be
slowly expanded (depending on the number of spams received) until
something is done about the spammer. 

Delisting. If the size of the listing is anything more than a single IP
address, delisting can only take place when the spammer is no longer
using the address space, in which case the size of the listing will be
reduced down to the originally spamming IP addresses free of charge. The
affected IPs (the ones used to send the spam) will only be delisted when
US$50 is donated to a SORBS nominated charity or good cause. The
charities and good causes SORBS approves will not have any connection
with any member of the SORBS administrators, either past or present. 

--Mike Bird

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