RE: Defining ISP?
Comments inline, I've cut out a bunch of replies to make it easier to
read.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan G [mailto:email-lists@surestorm.com]
> Sent: Friday, 17 September 2004 10:04 AM
> To: dopry@thing.net
> Cc: debian-isp@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: Defining ISP?
>
> Comments in line
>
> Darrel O'Pry wrote:
>
> > Well I guess I'll try to start a discussion about what would be
needed
> > for an ISP distribution, and present a basic primer to how I run my
> > systems as an example of needs or things to keep in mind developing
an
> > ISP distribution that can meet a wide variety of needs.
> >
>
> I'm agree with you, a distro with solely what is needed to run a
general
> purpose ISP.
Check out http://debian-enterprise.org/ - Maybe work on that?
> >
> > I think it might be easier to develop and maintain ISP specific
> > meta-packages, as Ben Lisle suggested? Would he be willing to put
his
> > existing meta-packages on the open market for community review and
> > maintenance?
Sure, I'll tidy them a little and repackage. Keep in mind, they're very
"bennish" - the choice of software I use and the way I configure them
reflect the way I administer my servers. I doubt this sort of thing
would benefit many other people.
> > Meta-Packages that reflect my deployments would include:
>
> The list of packages to be included should be disussion matter. In
> example some people love postfix while i rather like exim, but the
> global idea is, at least for me, include in the distro 2 programs for
> each need in order to the sysadmin decide which one he will use:
>
> - web server: apache, minihttpd
> - mta: exim, postfix, qmail
> - imap/pop3: qpopper, courier, cyrus
> - database: mysql, postgress
> - radius: freeraidus, radiator
> - etc...
How many systems administrators do you know that do things the same way?
:-) At this level I doubt the ISP distribution would be useful. You'd
be catering to people who want a quick setup and nothing else - so maybe
hosting providers. I for one would not trust someone else's slapd.conf.
> A quick release in not as important as mantain your distro secure and
> fault tolerant. However, again i'm agree that is better to patch a
small
> package distro than a general purpose distro with thousands of
packages.
>
I'd rather see Sarge with better enterprise hardware support. EVMS off
the bat, a good 2.4/2.6 kernel. That said, see the link at the top.
Those guys need some more developers :-)
> > Other expectations I would have of an ISP friendly distribution of
> > debian would be a cluster friendly file system layout, and a set of
> > shell scripts for managing users, ftp, and web accounts. Currently
> > I use a layout along the lines of /var/www/domains/a/adomain.com/,
> > /var/www/usersite/u/username/, /var/media/qt/a/auser,
> > /var/media/real/a/user
>
> Use LVM or help admin use it, ok! But inject script to manipulate
users
> or accounts is not a good idea. For example in my case i use a
different
> organization than your, organization that as you i love and i don't
want
> to be forced to change it:
>
Build an administration tool for that - package it, submit it. I've
been doing some LVS stuff at home and I wrote some simple Python scripts
to quickly build new Debian and Redhat servers. Maybe something similar
would be helpful to server administrators?
> >
> > I'm sure there are people out there with better method of
implementing
> > this, or maybe better ideas about going about this kind of work, but
> > this seems to work pretty well for my small ISP, but I'm relatively
in
> > experienced at this job and kind of hack it together as I go to in
> > attempts to keep legacy customers happy, provide the widest possible
> > base of services and options, keep up with current applications, and
> > make an attempt at maintaining the security of my network. Any
feedback,
> > ideas, or suggestions are greatly appreciated.
> >
Yep, those http://debian-enterprise.org/ guys could use your help :-)
> Same feeling. :)
>
> > .darrel.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> BR,
>
> jonathan
>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Jonathan G [mailto:email-lists@surestorm.com]
> >>Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 6:12 AM
> >>To: debian-isp@lists.debian.org
> >>Subject: Re: Defining ISP?
> >>
> >>Well, we can start reading the following documents about how to
create
> >
> > a
> >
> >>CDD (Custom Debian Distribution):
> >>
> >>- http://wiki.debian.net/index.cgi?CustomDebian
> >>- http://alioth.debian.org/projects/cdd/
> >>-
> >>http://people.debian.org/~tille/debian-med/talks/paper-cdd/debian-
> >>cdd.html/
> >>- http://people.debian.org/~kalfa/cdd/debian-devel
> >>
> >>
> >>BR,
> >>
> >>jonathan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>shift wrote:
> >>
> >>>hej J.
> >>>
> >>>Me I'd like to be in it.
> >>>
> >>>shift
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>From: "Jonathan G" <email-lists@surestorm.com>
> >>>To: <debian-isp@lists.debian.org>
> >>>Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 12:42 PM
> >>>Subject: Re: Defining ISP?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I would be so please with the help of the phorun to propose open a
> >
> > new
> >
> >>>>branch into the Debian community dedicated to ISP.
> >>>>
> >>>>Whom of you're interested??
> >>>>
> >>>>BR,
> >>>>
> >>>>jonathan
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>shift wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>The idea seems still interesting to me 2 days after the week-end!
> >>
> >>( Did
> >>
> >>>>>some definitive dammage happen? :)
> >>>>>I imagine an install, giving possibilities of Raid, backup,
> >
> > replication,
> >
> >>>>>networking etc from the start, all necessary tools and programs,
in
> >
> > a
> >
> >>>>>compact, easy to use distribution with some "ncursed" ISP
specific
> >>>>>administration tools. Something secure, minimalistic (I like the
> >
> > word
> >
> >>>and
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>the concept) and with some optimization possibilities.
> >>>>>does-it still seem confuse? Is it "une idee farfelue"?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>shift
> >>>>>
> >>>>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>From: "Jonathan G - Mailing Lists" <email-lists@surestorm.com>
> >>>>>To: <debian-isp@lists.debian.org>
> >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 3:39 PM
> >>>>>Subject: Re: Defining ISP?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Hi,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>what i used to do is install a base system and then install some
> >
> > of
> >
> >>the
> >>
> >>>>>>package packs i've defined.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>For example, if what i want is install a web server with php %
> >
> > perl
> >
> >>>>>>support i use a config file what i've defined myself which
> >
> > contains
> >
> >>>this:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>apt-get install apache2-common apache2-mpm-prefork
> >>>>>>libapache2-mod-auth-mysql libapache2-mod-perl2 php4-common
> >>>>>>libmailtools-perl libhtml-format-perl bzip2 file
> >
> > libio-socket-ssl-perl
> >
> >>>>>>ca-certificates libapache2-mod-php4 php4-mysql php4-pear
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>For the rest of services exactly the same. I'v defined manually
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>>>>whole list of packages needed for web server, ftp server, irc
> >
> > server,
> >
> >>>>>>mail server (smtp, pop and imap), antivirus server, etc...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>If you can build a local mirror of you version of debian, i.e.
> >
> > sarge,
> >
> >>>>>>you can do local network installations, and your installs will
be
> >
> > so
> >
> >>>fast.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>That work fine for me at least :)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>BR,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>jonathan
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Christian Hammers wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>On 2004-09-14 shift wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Thinking maybe of a an ISP specific install. Lighter and even
> >
> > more
> >
> >>>>>>>>secure. A minimalistic distribution...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Most ISP will probably have different servers for the different
> >>>
> >>>services
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>and on each of them they will start with a secure base install
with
> >
> > as
> >
> >>>few
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>software installed as possible and then just install
> >>>
> >>>apache/postfix/proftpd
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>whatever they need and customize it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>I don't see a big bonus in a special ISP distribution. A better
> >>>>>
> >>>>>integration of iptables firewalls, vlans or traffic shapers would
> >
> > be
> >
> >>>nice
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>but that's nothing ISP specific.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>bye,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>-christian-
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>P.S.: pbuilder is a nice tool to build minimal installations
that
> >
> > you
> >
> >>>>>can just untar onto a new harddisk
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>--
> >>>>>>To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-isp-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
> >>>>>>with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
> >>>>>
> >>>>>listmaster@lists.debian.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>> :::: Jonathan Gonzalez Fernandez ::::
> >>>>
> >>>> (o> mail : jonathan@surestorm.com
> >>>> //\ jabber: surestorm@jabber.org
> >>>> V_/ site : www.surestorm.com
> >>>>
> >>>> ::: Registered Linux User #333386 :::
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-isp-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
> >>>>with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
> >>>
> >>>listmaster@lists.debian.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>--
> >> :::: Jonathan Gonzalez Fernandez ::::
> >>
> >> (o> mail : jonathan@surestorm.com
> >> //\ jabber: surestorm@jabber.org
> >> V_/ site : www.surestorm.com
> >>
> >> ::: Registered Linux User #333386 :::
> >>
> >>
> >>--
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> >>
> >>
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> >
>
>
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