Re: Defining ISP?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrel O'Pry" <dopry@thing.net>
To: <debian-isp@lists.debian.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 5:35 PM
Subject: RE: Defining ISP?
> Well I guess I'll try to start a discussion about what would be needed
> for an ISP distribution, and present a basic primer to how I run my
> systems as an example of needs or things to keep in mind developing an
> ISP distribution that can meet a wide variety of needs.
>
>
> I think it might be easier to develop and maintain ISP specific
> meta-packages, as Ben Lisle suggested? Would he be willing to put his
> existing meta-packages on the open market for community review and
> maintenance?
>
> Meta-Packages that reflect my deployments would include:
>
> Qmail-MX-scanner (options for NFS, local, and qmtp delivery)
> (vpopmail, djbdns, qmail-scr, qmail-scanner, spamassassin,
> ClamAV)
> Qmail-mailstore-admin
> (vpopmail, mysql, qmail-src, apache-ssl, vqadmin, qmailAdmin,
> qmailMrtg)
> Qmail-POP/Imap(options for delivery from localhost or nfs)
> (vpopmail, qmail-src, courier imap, imp/horde)
>
> listserv-exim ( exim4, mailman, majordomo, majorcool, mhonarc)
> listserv-qmail( qmail, mailman, ezmlm, majordomo, majorcool, mhonarc)
>
> Webserver(apache, suPHP, fastcgi, mod_perl, mod_ssl, zope/plone,
> awstats, )
>
> MediaServer(icecast2, Darwin, Helix)
>
> DNS-primary (djbdns, VegaDNS, mysql)
> DNS-secondary (djbdns)
>
> Radius-primary (freeRadius, DialupAdmin, mysql)
> Radius-Secondary (freeRadius, mysql)
>
> Admin-backup (mysql, rsnapshot, phpMyadmin, snort, mrtg, spong )
>
>
>
> One advantage of an ISP specific branch of Debian may be a quicker
> release cycle since, hopefully, it will depend on fewer packages, and
> the bug squashing will be easier. The slow release cycle has been the
> biggest problem for me as a systems administrator. It is difficult to
> keep your product line up to date and services up to date, when you are
> working with outdated packages. I finally gained enough trust in testing
> and moved over most of my production servers which has alleviated this
> problem, but I expect I will have it again in a year or two.
>
> Other expectations I would have of an ISP friendly distribution of
> debian would be a cluster friendly file system layout, and a set of
> shell scripts for managing users, ftp, and web accounts. Currently
> I use a layout along the lines of /var/www/domains/a/adomain.com/,
> /var/www/usersite/u/username/, /var/media/qt/a/auser,
> /var/media/real/a/user
>
> With symlinks from the users home directory ~/domains/adomain.com ->
> domains owned by user, ~/public_html->usersite, ~/media/real/ -> real
> server content dirs, ~media/Darwin/ -> Darwin content dirs
>
>
> I only have to provide shell access on particular servers and users can
> manage data for all of their services via nfs or your shared file system
> of choice. I do not have a central authentication architecture in place,
> currently, just keep uids/permissions etc in line across servers via
> shell scripts && ssh). I haven't clustered anything besides my mail
> services yet(still trying to figure out how to best implement
> everything), but I am currently looking into LVS, and looking for a good
> low-budget filer/nfs setup to start-with.
>
> I think it is something to keep in mind for allowing ISPs to have an
> easy expansion path to meet growth.
>
> I'm sure there are people out there with better method of implementing
> this, or maybe better ideas about going about this kind of work, but
> this seems to work pretty well for my small ISP, but I'm relatively in
> experienced at this job and kind of hack it together as I go to in
> attempts to keep legacy customers happy, provide the widest possible
> base of services and options, keep up with current applications, and
> make an attempt at maintaining the security of my network. Any feedback,
> ideas, or suggestions are greatly appreciated.
>
> .darrel.
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jonathan G [mailto:email-lists@surestorm.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 6:12 AM
> > To: debian-isp@lists.debian.org
> > Subject: Re: Defining ISP?
> >
> > Well, we can start reading the following documents about how to create
> a
> > CDD (Custom Debian Distribution):
> >
> > - http://wiki.debian.net/index.cgi?CustomDebian
> > - http://alioth.debian.org/projects/cdd/
> > -
> > http://people.debian.org/~tille/debian-med/talks/paper-cdd/debian-
> > cdd.html/
> > - http://people.debian.org/~kalfa/cdd/debian-devel
> >
> >
> > BR,
> >
> > jonathan
> >
> >
> >
> > shift wrote:
> > > hej J.
> > >
> > > Me I'd like to be in it.
> > >
> > > shift
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jonathan G" <email-lists@surestorm.com>
> > > To: <debian-isp@lists.debian.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 12:42 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Defining ISP?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>I would be so please with the help of the phorun to propose open a
> new
> > >>branch into the Debian community dedicated to ISP.
> > >>
> > >>Whom of you're interested??
> > >>
> > >>BR,
> > >>
> > >>jonathan
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>shift wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> The idea seems still interesting to me 2 days after the week-end!
> > ( Did
> > >>>some definitive dammage happen? :)
> > >>>I imagine an install, giving possibilities of Raid, backup,
> replication,
> > >>>networking etc from the start, all necessary tools and programs, in
> a
> > >>>compact, easy to use distribution with some "ncursed" ISP specific
> > >>>administration tools. Something secure, minimalistic (I like the
> word
> > >
> > > and
> > >
> > >>>the concept) and with some optimization possibilities.
> > >>>does-it still seem confuse? Is it "une idee farfelue"?
> > >>>
> > >>>shift
> > >>>
> > >>>----- Original Message -----
> > >>>From: "Jonathan G - Mailing Lists" <email-lists@surestorm.com>
> > >>>To: <debian-isp@lists.debian.org>
> > >>>Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 3:39 PM
> > >>>Subject: Re: Defining ISP?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>Hi,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>what i used to do is install a base system and then install some
> of
> > the
> > >>>>package packs i've defined.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>For example, if what i want is install a web server with php %
> perl
> > >>>>support i use a config file what i've defined myself which
> contains
> > >
> > > this:
> > >
> > >>>>
> > >>>>apt-get install apache2-common apache2-mpm-prefork
> > >>>>libapache2-mod-auth-mysql libapache2-mod-perl2 php4-common
> > >>>>libmailtools-perl libhtml-format-perl bzip2 file
> libio-socket-ssl-perl
> > >>>>ca-certificates libapache2-mod-php4 php4-mysql php4-pear
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>For the rest of services exactly the same. I'v defined manually
> the
> > >>>>whole list of packages needed for web server, ftp server, irc
> server,
> > >>>>mail server (smtp, pop and imap), antivirus server, etc...
> > >>>>
> > >>>>If you can build a local mirror of you version of debian, i.e.
> sarge,
> > >>>>you can do local network installations, and your installs will be
> so
> > >
> > > fast.
> > >
> > >>>>That work fine for me at least :)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>BR,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>jonathan
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Christian Hammers wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>On 2004-09-14 shift wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>Thinking maybe of a an ISP specific install. Lighter and even
> more
> > >>>>>>secure. A minimalistic distribution...
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Most ISP will probably have different servers for the different
> > >
> > > services
> > >
> > >>>and on each of them they will start with a secure base install with
> as
> > >
> > > few
> > >
> > >>>software installed as possible and then just install
> > >
> > > apache/postfix/proftpd
> > >
> > >>>whatever they need and customize it.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>I don't see a big bonus in a special ISP distribution. A better
> > >>>
> > >>>integration of iptables firewalls, vlans or traffic shapers would
> be
> > >
> > > nice
> > >
> > >>>but that's nothing ISP specific.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>bye,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>-christian-
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>P.S.: pbuilder is a nice tool to build minimal installations that
> you
> > >>>
> > >>>can just untar onto a new harddisk
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>--
> > >>>>To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-isp-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
> > >>>>with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
> > >>>
> > >>>listmaster@lists.debian.org
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>--
> > >> :::: Jonathan Gonzalez Fernandez ::::
> > >>
> > >> (o> mail : jonathan@surestorm.com
> > >> //\ jabber: surestorm@jabber.org
> > >> V_/ site : www.surestorm.com
> > >>
> > >> ::: Registered Linux User #333386 :::
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>--
> > >>To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-isp-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
> > >>with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
> > >
> > > listmaster@lists.debian.org
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > :::: Jonathan Gonzalez Fernandez ::::
> >
> > (o> mail : jonathan@surestorm.com
> > //\ jabber: surestorm@jabber.org
> > V_/ site : www.surestorm.com
> >
> > ::: Registered Linux User #333386 :::
> >
> >
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