On Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 10:01:58AM +0100, Denis Barbier wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 03:31:08AM +0100, Michael Bramer wrote:
> [...]
> > > There are several problems:
> > > * all msgids have a trailing space
> > > * msgids are not unique
> > > * encoding is not specified
> >
> > Oh, I know this all. This are the first files..., I will add/change this
> > points. This was no announcement of the availability of po files.
>
> I thought you were asking for feedback, sorry for the trouble.
no trouble...
> > > translating messages by running msgunfmt on .mo files. You are losing
> > > comments written by previous translators.
> >
> > and?
> >
> > Maybe the DDTS is not compatible with this po like comments. But is this
> > a problem? IMHO no.
>
> You also lose fuzzy strings, __Choices is not supported, etc.
We don't need fuzzy in DDTP.
If the text changed, the DDTP make a bug report and the last translator
get this, with the old, the new English text and the old translation.
The old translation is removed from the translated file, and after the
upload of the new translation, the ddts insert the new translation in
the translated file.
to the Choices:
this is still true.
1.) Only <5% of all tempelates have translateable Choices
2.) The DDTP will support this in future. (But other things are on
the top of my TODO list.)
> > My dream:
> > The package maintainer make only 'his' english templates file and
> > upload the package to the archive.
> > The DDTP will catch all this new stuff, translate it all in 1-2 weeks
> > automagical into all languages.
> > If the package maintainer make a new build, some build scripts
> > download the translations from the DDTP and include this to this
> > package (the old system) or the DDTP make a XXX-i10n-XX package itself
> > and upload this with all the translation.
> >
> > You get the point? We don't need comments in the po files! The po file
> > is only a container for the transport from the DDTP to the binary
> > package. Nobody will look into it. Nobody will read this comments...
>
> Your point is that everything works wonderful if the DDTP is the only
> source of l10n. Sorry but this is not acceptable, translators can
> decide to manage their translations in a different way.
yes, you right. The translators can get the normal po files and use
this. No translator must use the DDTP framework. The DDTP is only a
offer for translators and reviewer.
If a package A has some translators, and this translators make the
translations, send this to the package maintainer of A and he use this
translation, all is ok. Nobody will of this will use the DDTP. This is
ok.
But the real live is differently. See the graphic from
http://ddtp.debian.org/debconf/gnuplot/ddts-stat.png:
At the beginning from 2000 debconf descriptions, we have only 700
translated into German. Some of this translations are outdated. All this
is not very nice.
Now we have 2300 translations of 3000 debconf translations. And this all
in 5 Months. And the DDTP avoid outdated translation and the review
process give some quality.
short: If the maintainer and the translator work without the DDTP all is
ok. But if the maintainer and the translator (and the reviewer)
use the framework of the DDTP, the don't need any comments, fuzzy
flags etc. in the debconfs files from the DDTP.
> What you describe is mostly a clone of the Free Translation Project,
> but information is centralized by the DDTS whereas it is distributed
> in PO files by the FTP. This is IMO a huge difference, I much prefer
> the latter.
1.) IMHO I know the TP (I never work with it)
2.) The TP is only for normal po files. I don't find any other po files
there (like the debconf templates po files, po from man pages, ...)
3.) gettext avoid outdated translations, but IMHO TP don't inform the
translator about changes etc.
4.) I don't like to translate text from normal programs (like tar),
programs with own translation system (like KDE) or something like this.
The DDTP will only support
- first debian only texts (like Package Description, Debconf
templates, ...)
- maybe sometimes other 'extern' texts, if nobody other make a
translation.
Nobody must use the DDTP. If you prefer other ways, make your work like
you prefer ways.
Gruss
Grisu
--
Michael Bramer - a Debian Linux Developer http://www.debsupport.de
PGP: finger grisu@db.debian.org -- Linux Sysadmin -- Use Debian Linux
"Das Schlimme am Pessimismus ist eigentlich, meistens Recht zu
bekommen." -- Michael Olbricht in dasr
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