Re: Hurd Advocacy?
OK, I think I can comment here, as I'm someone that's used Linux for years
and has periodically looked into Hurd.
Here are major concerns from this end:
1. Basics like filesystems >2GB need to be fixed pronto. The limitation
is under-documented and is serious these days.
2. The installer is rather buggy and misleading (even refers to Linux
in several places). Debian GNU/Hurd needs an installer of at least
the quality of Debian GNU/Linux.
3. The post-installer .sh script is also rather buggy, and should
not be necessary at all given dpkg/apt-get. It's also under-documented.
4. Hardware support. 'Nuff said.
5. X.
One note: I've heard people ragging on the Hurd's performance. I personally
don't care much about that at this stage. I want something I can install,
tinker with, discover all the cool things about it, and actually use. I
understand if it's slow for now.
On Fri, Aug 15, 2003 at 01:31:37PM -0700, Hurd Advocate wrote:
>
> What can the Hurd community do to promote their favorite OS?
>
> It seems like the Hurd doesn't really have a critical mass of
> users to spur the growth we'd all like to see. So I was wondering what
> everyone thought was the best way to attract more developers/users to
> the Hurd. The reason I initially looked into the hurd is the BitKeeper
> fiasco. I found it unpalatable for free software to be beholden to a
> proprietary master. I thought it would't hurt to look at the
> alternatives. And I came across the Hurd. From what I could initially
> find out, it seemed like it had interesting and modern architecture,
> one
> which could solve the "Linus doesn't scale" problem more cleanly than
> the BitKeeper solution. (And here I'm assuming that things like
> userspace device drivers and the fact that any part of the system can
> theoretically be replaced on the fly really does solve that problem).
> I
> was, of course, also attracted just because it was something new and
> different. So I wonder what attracts everyone else to the Hurd. To
> that end here are a couple of questions I have.
>
> - Is there any killer-app for the Hurd (available now or in the future)
> that we think will bring the masses in? Or phrased a different way,
> is there any one feature that people would be willing to think about
> converting over for.
> translators?
> distributed OS?
> better security model?
> more customizable? (is that a word?)
>
> - Are hardware compatibility problems more of a problem for newbies, or
> is it the lack of software which stifles adoption. (And for the
> record, I think the killer-app would be Linux and the Hurd running
> side by side on top of the same micro-kernel. That would make
> migration easier, since you could still have access to your important
> hardware and software that hadn't been ported over yet)
>
> - Is it hard to attract developers because the project is too complex.
> Instead of just learning one system, you have to learn about two: the
> hurd and mach. And who would want to learn about mach when it's
> scheduled for removal whenever the L4 kernel gets traction (3-5 years
> out?)? Or is it the "multi- threaded servers are hard to debug"
> problem still.
>
> - Is a lack of documentation the real hard thing for new developers to
> overcome?
>
> - Are we nice enough to newbs? (I tend to think so, but there was a
> little hissy-fit about change-log colon-placement for hello.c on
> bug-hurd last month)
>
> - Do we suffer from a lack of charasmatic leadership and direction?
>
> - Is there any one thing which could be fixed to attact a lot more
> users?
> PPP?
> sound?
> USB?
> GNOME?
> journaled file system?
> OpenOffice?
>
> - Is advertising our problem? Do we not get enough exposure to
> potential developers? (And here I'm thinking CS undergrads) I'm
> thinking that a new developer could have a lot more influence on the
> design of the Hurd (since it's still in flux) than say a more mature
> project like Linux or FreeBSD.
>
> - Does anyone think that companies like RedHat or IBM might think about
> funding some summer college internships to work on something like the
> Hurd?
>
> - Is there any future development that might drive people to the Hurd?
> Like the SCO garbage or DRM binaries/signatures in the Linux kernel?
>
> - Is our installation proceedure/Debian system overly obtuse?
>
> - Are we always destined to play catch up with Linux? (eventhough we
> had
> a headstart?)
>
> Anyways, I'd like to hear your thoughts.
>
>
> The Hurd Advocate
>
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