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Re: Hurd Advocacy?



OK, I think I can comment here, as I'm someone that's used Linux for years
and has periodically looked into Hurd.

Here are major concerns from this end:

1. Basics like filesystems >2GB need to be fixed pronto.  The limitation
   is under-documented and is serious these days.

2. The installer is rather buggy and misleading (even refers to Linux
   in several places).  Debian GNU/Hurd needs an installer of at least
   the quality of Debian GNU/Linux.

3. The post-installer .sh script is also rather buggy, and should
   not be necessary at all given dpkg/apt-get.  It's also under-documented.

4. Hardware support.  'Nuff said.

5. X.

One note: I've heard people ragging on the Hurd's performance.  I personally
don't care much about that at this stage.  I want something I can install,
tinker with, discover all the cool things about it, and actually use.  I
understand if it's slow for now.

On Fri, Aug 15, 2003 at 01:31:37PM -0700, Hurd Advocate wrote:
> 
>     What can the Hurd community do to promote their favorite OS?
> 
>     It seems like the Hurd doesn't really have a critical mass of
> users to spur the growth we'd all like to see.  So I was wondering what
> everyone thought was the best way to attract more developers/users to
> the Hurd.  The reason I initially looked into the hurd is the BitKeeper
> fiasco.  I found it unpalatable for free software to be beholden to a
> proprietary master.  I thought it would't hurt to look at the
> alternatives.  And I came across the Hurd.  From what I could initially
> find out, it seemed like it had interesting and modern architecture,
> one
> which could solve the "Linus doesn't scale" problem more cleanly than
> the BitKeeper solution.  (And here I'm assuming that things like
> userspace device drivers and the fact that any part of the system can
> theoretically be replaced on the fly really does solve that problem). 
> I
> was, of course, also attracted just because it was something new and
> different.  So I wonder what attracts everyone else to the Hurd.  To
> that end here are a couple of questions I have.
> 
> - Is there any killer-app for the Hurd (available now or in the future)
>   that we think will bring the masses in?  Or phrased a different way,
>   is there any one feature that people would be willing to think about
>   converting over for.
>      translators?
>      distributed OS?
>      better security model?
>      more customizable? (is that a word?)
> 
> - Are hardware compatibility problems more of a problem for newbies, or
>   is it the lack of software which stifles adoption. (And for the
>   record, I think the killer-app would be Linux and the Hurd running
>   side by side on top of the same micro-kernel.  That would make
>   migration easier, since you could still have access to your important
>   hardware and software that hadn't been ported over yet)
> 
> - Is it hard to attract developers because the project is too complex.
>   Instead of just learning one system, you have to learn about two: the
>   hurd and mach.  And who would want to learn about mach when it's
>   scheduled for removal whenever the L4 kernel gets traction (3-5 years
>   out?)?  Or is it the "multi- threaded servers are hard to debug"
>   problem still.
> 
> - Is a lack of documentation the real hard thing for new developers to
>   overcome?
> 
> - Are we nice enough to newbs?  (I tend to think so, but there was a
>   little hissy-fit about change-log colon-placement for hello.c on
>   bug-hurd last month)
> 
> - Do we suffer from a lack of charasmatic leadership and direction?
> 
> - Is there any one thing which could be fixed to attact a lot more
> users?
>     PPP?
>     sound?
>     USB?
>     GNOME?
>     journaled file system?
>     OpenOffice?
> 
> - Is advertising our problem?  Do we not get enough exposure to
>   potential developers?  (And here I'm thinking CS undergrads) I'm
>   thinking that a new developer could have a lot more influence on the
>   design of the Hurd (since it's still in flux) than say a more mature
>   project like Linux or FreeBSD.
> 
> - Does anyone think that companies like RedHat or IBM might think about
>   funding some summer college internships to work on something like the
>   Hurd?
> 
> - Is there any future development that might drive people to the Hurd?
>   Like the SCO garbage or DRM binaries/signatures in the Linux kernel?
> 
> - Is our installation proceedure/Debian system overly obtuse?
> 
> - Are we always destined to play catch up with Linux? (eventhough we
> had
>   a headstart?)
> 
> Anyways, I'd like to hear your thoughts.
> 
> 
> The Hurd Advocate
> 
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