Re: Long term progress, not perfection
Before posting my original reply, I asked some people on IRC (#hurd) how
they feel about Debian. I got answers like "Well, as we lack manpower,
we have to compromise". I can't remember anyone saying anything positive
about Debian, though.
Grant Bowman <email@example.com> wrote:
> "Something needs to be done" - what?
There is a reason why I was vague here: I don't feel like discussing
this in any detail, as it won't change anything. I will put my energy
in things which are actually useful now.
> > BTW, I planned to become a Debian developer a while ago, but for reasons
> > similar to Jeroens, I have changed my opinion on that. I hope that
> > others can keep their optimism longer than we could and will actually be
> > able to improve Debian, but I doubt it. I rather expect that the Debian
> > GNU/*BSD people will feel similar like most of us do right now. I hope
> > that I'm wrong. :-/
> Now you are speaking for even more people to try to justify your own
Only this will make people realize that the current situation is bad for
both Debian and the Hurd. People may not (want to) care about the Hurd
port, but at least they should care about Debian in general.
> If you want to confront people who you know are already hostile directly
> with unspecific arguments you should not expect wonderful results.
Neither do I care about people who are already against us, as they will
continue to do so in the future, nor do I expect any positive results (I
rather expect no results, as usual). But I also doubt we will get less
support than none in the future.
Did you take a look at the bug database entry posted by Robert? Do so,
I can assure you that I have seen similar reactions in the past. If
you like being treated this way, go ahead and try to improve Debian.
> This port has been a long term game. As the software stabilizes the
> code will speak for itself. Organizational change of any kind takes
> longer. An organization of technical people - longer still. A
> VOLUNTEER organization - longer still. What do you really expect and why?
I don't think we are "just too impatient". We rather realize it when
there is no hope. Do you know what Jeroens opinion was some months ago?
I remember that he was very optimistic about fixing the problems in
Debian (like you seem to be now). And I remember Marcus being not very
optimistic even back then. Now this almost looks like a pattern, does
Wolfgang Jährling <firstname.lastname@example.org> \\ http://stdio.cjb.net/
Debian GNU/Hurd user && Debian GNU/Linux user \\ http://www.gnu.org/
The Hurd Hacking Guide: http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hacking-guide/
["We're way ahead of you here. The Hurd has always been on the ]
[ cutting edge of not being good for anything." -- Roland McGrath ]
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