Re: smarter way to differ architectures needed?
On 9 Apr 2001, Robert Bihlmeyer wrote:
> I think you two have completely orthogonal issues in mind:
Exactly. We are not dealing with another architecture, but with another
operating system, which in time will be ported to other architectures.
This adds another dimension to what we are doing.
>
> 1. Is package X usable on platform Y?
> 2. How big do we estimate the userbase for package X on platform Y?
>
> The first point is fulfilled if at least one person can and will use X
> on Y. Of course it is somewhat wasteful to put X on every user's
> "Debian Y" CD. Ideally we want to put the most used packages on every
> CD, and the rest on optional CDs. What is most used may vary across
> platforms.
A better way of dealing with this is to look at who uses Debian CDs. My
experience as a vendor suggests that newbies will buy a CD set, install,
play and learn. By the time they are ready to upgrade they will be
pointing apt at a suitable mirror. I get very little repeat custom for
Debian CDs. Imho how the CDs are built should reflect the needs of a
newbie user, ie a complete Hurd system with a minimum of clutter. This
could be called a good signal to noise ratio.
I totally agree with your view when it comes to installing packages from a
mirror. As a general rule these people will be beyond the newbie stage.
>
> Dependency-like fields (Depends, Conflicts, the new Build-For) cater
> to the first issue. I think the Priority field is a more viable
> solution to the second one.
Agreed about Depends etc.
> I understand that priority is already used to decide what goes on the
> first official Debian CD, and that some reduced sets exist which leave
> off anything "extra", or even "optional", too. Of course, up to now
> priority has been constant over all (Linux) architectures. But this
> may be changed, perhaps somewhat like this:
There are two steps to building the current CDs. The base, important and
standard packages and their recommendations, dependencies etc, and then a
packages list which includes a list built up from popularity contest. This
list can be tweaked. Finally what is left over goes on at the end if this
is wanted. The Hurd main CD has an include list, but this does not
include popularity contest. This disc is "closed" meaning that what is
not specified for inclusion is excluded. The extra CD is built up quite
separately and is open. However, what is on the main CD is excluded. If
there was not an extensive addition to the exclusion list there would be a
third CD with rubbish and useful packages on each of the second and third
CDs.
> Package: linux-kernel-doc
> Priority: linux: optional, all: extra
>
> Package: mig
> Priority: hurd: standard, all: optional
>
This would be fine if apt can be tweaked to recognise what should be on
the CDs.
<frustration> It is hard enough trying to produce a snapshot Hurd CD set
with all the work-arounds needed, identifying what is broken and what at
times seems endless testing, without the additional hassle of having to
identify what is Hurd and what is not. Should kde be included? what about
gnome? etc etc. The inclusion and exclusion lists have to be maintained
by hand which is boring, time consuming and error prone. The inclusion
list is on the point of becoming a total shambles and will need a lot of
work which I am not looking forward to. This could be avoided if there
was a proper method of identifying what belongs to the Hurd and what does
not. To make matters worse, apt-cdrom does not work and the first CD has
to be very carefully built as there is little margin for errors.
</frustration>
I will acknowledge that if the Hurd was a mature os the problems would not
be as intense, but the people responsible for building the CDs would still
be facing the same problem of identifying what is Hurdish enough to
include on the CD sets.
Phil.
-
Philip Charles; 39a Paterson St., Dunedin, New Zealand; +64 3 4882818
Mobile 025 267 9420. I sell GNU/Linux CDs. See http://www.copyleft.co.nz
philipc@copyleft.co.nz - preferred. philipc@debian.org
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