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Re: Debian presence at UDS - feedback sought


On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 05:34:29PM +0200, Joachim Breitner wrote:
Hi list, especiall Iain,

did you see this mail by zack?

Am Mittwoch, den 13.10.2010, 17:06 +0200 schrieb Stefano Zacchiroli:
[ M-F-T set to -derivatives ]

Dear all,
  I've been invited to attend the forthcoming UDS (Ubuntu Developer
Summit) and I'll be able to attend for a few days from October 25 to
October 28.

I plan to attend the usual session about the relationship among Debian
and Ubuntu, a session which is usually attended by DDs which happen to
work with Ubuntu or for Canonical. Something very similar happened last
time and I've reported about it [1].

As last time, I don't want to present my own views only, but rather
views which are representative of project opinions. Therefore I
encourage you to let me know of specific topics you want me to mention
in that session and/or that you want me to address face to face with
people there. I'll report about them once back.

This is a good chance to stress that IMO we want to pursue this kind of
collaboration with any derivative or distribution which is interested in
collaborating with us. Another example of it is Debian participation at
next OpenSUSE conference (thanks to Rhonda) and I'll surely welcome
other similar examples in the future (hint hint!).

Thanks for forwarding this. I'll actually be at UDS in person, so can
attend the session and discuss things with Zack personally. :)

it occured to me that we implement a possible model of cooperation
between Debian and Ubuntu: Most work happens on the Debian side, with
active contribution by the Ubuntu people (well, Iain :-)), who then
actively bring the development here to Ubuntu.

Right, that's pretty much how it is. There are a couple of others who
help when there are large transitions to be done* but these are driven
by me. The bus factor here is a bit low…

Iain, how satisfied are you with our model of cooperation? Does it work
well for you? If so, maybe you could tell zack about it, e.g. how you
ensure that Ubuntu benefits of the DHG work and how it workes out, and
he could use it as an example for a possible scheme of cooperation?

I think we're working pretty well. I just take most Debian packages
unmodified. Generally my opinion is that collaboration works best when
Ubuntu and Debian developers work together, *and* when this manifests
itself through Ubuntu developers working directly in Debian. It is
rare for me to upload a deviating change to Ubuntu, although this has
been done (most notably for ghc6 itself in the latest release,
although I did try to encourage this change to come from Debian
initially). These are hard to track down and, as a potential source of
bugs, make the packages harder to maintain. I don't know what users
think though. The only piece of feedback I've really had was on this
list, and said that our stuff was out of date and unsuitable for

I am also active in the Debian CLI/Mono group, and this is very
similar to how we work there too, although the Ubuntu-Debian developer
balance is Ubuntu-biased there. Cross-distro packaging teams working
in Debian seem to be an excellent way for collaboration to prosper.

Actually, one thing which I did do for CLI/Mono was to create an
Ubuntu packaging team. This team grants upload access to relevant
packages to its members. We could do a similar thing for Haskell if
there are members of the group who would be interested in directly
uploading to Ubuntu. It's just syncs and rebuilds. I have a modified
haskell-pkg-graph.py running to track installability.


* These require sourceful uploads to effect rebuilds, which can be
 rather time consuming

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