[Freedombox-discuss] Rouge Freedomboxes and government intervention
On 11-06-22 at 04:23pm, Neophyte Representative wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Jonas Smedegaard - dr at jones.dk wrote:
> > On 11-06-22 at 02:28pm, Neophyte Representative wrote:
> >> On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 2:34 AM, Jonas Smedegaard - dr at jones.dk wrote:
> >> >
> >> > We should continuously have all possible use cases in mind, but
> >> > prioritize those easy to provide rather than those with most
> >> > direct benefit for users involved in most obvious
> >> > freedom-enabling activities.
> >> >
> >> > Both segments care, else they don't buy FreedomBox at all.
> >> >
> >> > Example: Karla is increasingly frustrated with her government, is
> >> > politically active, and may start an uprising in 3 months.
> >> > ?Joanna is supportive of political activism but is more into
> >> > partying and chasing guys, not willing to get up on the
> >> > barricades. ?Joanna and Karla both want a FreedomBox.
> >> > ?FreedomBox-dating already exist in Debian testing, but
> >> > FreedomBox-stealth is still so flaky it is not even packaged for
> >> > Debian yet.
> >> >
> >> > Do we then...
> >> >
> >> > ?a) release FreedomBox 1.0 in 6 months with -dating only,
> >> > ? ?and FreedomBox 2.0 in maybe 1 year with -stealth added,
> >> > ? ?prioritizing all parts being reliable and maintainable.
> >> > ?b) release FreedomBox 1.0 in 6 months with -dating and -stealth,
> >> > ? ?prioritizing urgent features for urgent matters (even if flaky
> >> > ? ?and perhaps even dangerous for Karla to use).
> >> > ?c) release FreedomBox 1.0 in 1 month with -dating and -stealth,
> >> > ? ?prioritizing urgent features for urgent matters (even if flaky
> >> > ? ?and perhaps even dangerous for both Karla and Joanna to use).
> >> >
> >>
> >> You don't have any idea what quality or quantity of reliably
> >> available developmental labor units you will have available to even
> >> try to push the schedule around in this manner.
> >
> > Yes, I do have an idea: Get stuff packaged for Debian so that it can
> > be qualified/quantified a.k.a. get some eyeballs to make all bugs
> > shallow. Stuff in Debian unstable is sensible to consider
> > "unstable", and stuff so thoroughly "starred at" that it has
> > trickled down into Debian stable is sensible to consider as
> > "stable".
> >
> >
> >> The last thing I think you would want to do is put Karla in any
> >> serious danger of over-estimating the utility of FreedomBox in
> >> protecting her anonymity while facilitating her quest for
> >> governmental improvement, regardless of Joanna's uses. ?Joanna can
> >> probably be fully satisfied with reasonable use of today's spyware
> >> infected commercial offerings. ?Karla, in the most dangerous case,
> >> can't.
> >
> > In my opinion only option a) makes sense (among above three
> > options).
> >
> > I agree that Joanna would be ok waiting a couple of years for a
> > Facebook replacement, but she is supportive of political activism so
> > given the option of FreedomBox 1.0 (a.k.a. "silly" edition without
> > -stealth) she would favor that, because it could help Karla
> > slightly: Karla would lack stealth (and a bunch of other features
> > quite helpful for overthrowing a regime) but would at least not be
> > sold out by Zuckerberg - while we reliably extended FreedomBox with
> > more radical features.
> >
>
> Hmmm, I'm beginning to understand where I'm really having trouble with
> your plans.
>
> For a committed, deeply involved (willing to make the ultimate
> sacrifice) political activist like Karla, anything that gives the
> opposition a chance to find the activist represents too high a risk.
> S/he must not be lulled into relying upon our product naively.
>
> It is, indeed, a legitimate, interim goal to reduce the reliance of
> folks like Joanna upon products like the other FB. That does further
> the goal of Freedom. Perhaps we should coin another name for that
> project to avoid the high risk represented to the naive by the full
> name of this FB.
>
> We've already had deaths of many naive folks in Libya who thought all
> they needed was enthusiasm and numbers against modern weapons only
> slightly countered by International intervention. The International
> response in Libya in 2011 may be an improvement over the response in
> Hungary in 1956, but I don't think we need to set up such a mismatch
> in another arena. We need Freedom Fighters, not Dead Freedom
> Fighters. Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr., and
> Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela were all opposed to and by relatively
> civilized governments. Libya and Syria indicate that may not always
> be the case.
So due to violent regimes killing Karlas, you suggest we do not label a
box helping Joannas making a silverlining of the cloud as "FreedomBox"?
- Jonas
--
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
[x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private
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