Re: speculations to characterize issues for Debian Enterprise
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On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 00:04, CJ Fearnley <cjf@cjfearnley.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 11:28:26AM +1000, Geoff Crompton wrote:
>> CJ Fearnley wrote:
>>> 4. Configuration management.
>>> * I mean at the Debian packaging level primarily. But unless puppet
>>> solves the problem for everyone (and I'm not yet convinced), there
>>> is broader design work needed too.
>>> * Another hard problem. More than "just work", as it requires
>>> creative new ideas too!
>>
>> Russ description of this server class packages made me immediately
>> wonder why he wasn't using puppet for that. Perhaps that is what
>> Standford were doing before they started using puppet, and have
>> continued their practice.
>>
>> Can you mention why you don't think puppet is the right solution?
>> Clearly the defaults on any package will not suit every enterprise, and
>> some customisation is required. Puppet can do that just as well as a vi
>> session, or a local configuration package.
>
> In my operation every client has 1-10 servers (so none are big enough to
> benefit from many common configuration patterns). That is, each server
> is unique in hardware, domain name and in most other configuration details
> (every client seems to have different requirements and so needs different
> software with different integration behavior). Plus due to organizational
> boundaries, we are hyper-concerned about security (each system is behind
> network firewalls plus host-based firewalls plus several extra layers
> to protect ssh).
>
> For example, several clients want a web-based user management tool and
> some of their networks are LDAP (each with a different schema, of course),
> AD (also with different schemas), or traditional unix passwd. So ideally,
> we need a configuration management tool that can flexibly work with
> databases, LDAP _and_ files (and that doesn't need to be refactored with
> every major upgrade of Debian). So I remain very skeptical of centralized
> approaches that provide leverage primarily for homogeneous use cases.
>
> I'm overwhelmed by excessive heterogeneity. The only thing in common
> to all of our systems is Debian policy which is the baseline for all of
> our customizations!
>
> At Debconf10, I came to learn that puppet is possibly light-weight
> enough that it might help even for our situation. So it is now on the
> TODO list. But I remain very skeptical that another level of abstraction
> can do anything but increase complexity.
>
> --
> We are on a spaceship; a beautiful one. It took billions of years to develop.
> We're not going to get another. Now, how do we make this spaceship work?
> -- Buckminster Fuller
>
> CJ Fearnley | Explorer in Universe
> cjf@CJFearnley.com | "Dare to be Naive" -- Bucky Fuller
> http://www.CJFearnley.com | http://blog.remoteresponder.net/
>
>
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