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Bug#774232: recommend using a wired connexion

On Sun, Jan 29, 2023 at 09:39:41PM -0500, Antoine Beaupré wrote:
> On 2019-03-18 21:03:14, Paul Gevers wrote:
> > Hi Antoine,
> >
> > On 16-03-2019 15:46, Antoine Beaupré wrote:
> >> On 2019-03-16 15:18:27, Paul Gevers wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 15:59:51 -0500 Antoine =?utf-8?Q?Beaupr=C3=A9?=
> >>> <anarcat@debian.org> wrote:
> >>>> On 2015-01-05 15:52:23, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> >>>>> There might however be an issue with remote upgrades over wireless 
> >>>>> connections handled by Network Manager as it still reinitializes the 
> >>>>> connection on service restart, so doing a remote upgrade over wireless 
> >>>>> could under specific circumstances lead to problems.
> >>>>
> >>>> That. Exactly. :) I would be terrified of doing a remote upgrade over
> >>>> wifi, and that's probably because I know a little more what I am doing
> >>>> than the average Debian user - so I think it makes sense to warn against
> >>>> that particular foot-shooting device.
> >>>
> >>> I expect this is still an issue, but I wonder how hypothetical this is.
> >>> Is there any evidence that this is a real issue? I would update remotely
> >>> over WiFi myself, but ...
> >>>
> >>> So, if we want to share our worries, how to phrase this? Does the
> >>> following make sense?
> >>> """
> >>> Upgrading systems remotely that are connected via WiFi managed by
> >>> Network Manager isn't recommended. Network Manager re-initializes the
> >>> connection on service restart which could lead to problems under certain
> >>> circumstances.
> >>> """
> >> 
> >> The thing is am I do not believe the Debian package restarts network
> >> manager automatically. I have needrestart here for stuff like that, and
> >> even *that* blocks that automated restart by default...
> >
> > So you changed you mind since you filed the bug? Or am I
> > misunderstanding you now?
> So I'm not sure anymore. It's been a *long* time now, and I am not sure
> exactly why I filed that bug... I wish I had been more explicit on the
> "why" back then and an actual failure mode I experienced. I'm pretty
> sure there *was* something, but I can't trace it right now.
> Now that we're working on bookworm, I think I agree that we should move
> on.

I suspect the connection manager does get restarted on upgrade. 

I'm on Devuan chimaera, so things may be different for me.

But whenever I do an upgrade, I start by overriding the entry in rexolv.conf that the connection manager put there ao that I get a regular DNS location (I usually choose because I can remember it.)

(why do I do that?  Because long long ago the connection manager seems to have memorized a particular one of Devuan's mirrors and now it always gives me that one and it happens to be broken).  I will get it even if it is no longer i the list of Devuan mirrors..

But gets me a new one, and that one works.

The entire upgrade than works cleanly, but afterward, if I look at resolv.conf, it has again been overwritten by the connection manager,

So I conclude that it has been restarted.

So I conclude that the upgrade does indeed restart the connection manager.

No problem on my laptop.  But I imagine it could cause problems on a remote device it I were to lose contact.

-- hendrik

> I still think that people should use a wired connexion for upgrades, but
> I am not feeling so strongly about this that it should be part of the
> upgrade procedure. In fact, I believe I have myself done upgrades over
> wifi without too much problems recently.
> I don't actually buy the "wifi firmware goes away" theory anymore, and
> if network manager restarts, who cares? You already have the packages
> downloaded at this point and the worse that could happen there is that
> you lose your network, which is something a reboot (which you need to do
> anyways) would do as well.
> So yeah, let's move on, and thanks for nursing all those bugs all those
> years. :)
> a.
> -- 
> La propriété est un piège: ce que nous croyons posséder nous possède.
>                         - Alphonse Karr

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