Re: debian-faq: Patch3 to update outdated information
Hi,
Justin B Rye <justin.byam.rye@gmail.com> wrote:
> Holger Wansing wrote:
> > now the third patch to address more invasive things:
> >
> > - I have updated info on release architectures
> > - I removed/changed paragraphs about floppies (still someone using them? :-) )
> > - I changed the description of apt (copied from official package-description
> > from packages.debian.org)
> > - I added a mention of UTF-8
> >
> > - Should we remove docu on dselect? (outdated tool)
> > That would also mean the removal of docu about dpkg-mountable.
>
> dpkg-mountable was a Debian package up until 2.2 "potato", but as far
> as I can see this information was stale by 3.0 "woody" in 2002!
>
> > - Should we no longer mention the outdated repository-howto?
> > - What about the modconf package/mechanism? Still required? Still existing?
>
> The package ceased to exist in wheezy, but I think it had been largely
> redundant for a while before that.
Ok, so we can safely remove that.
> > A patch as a proposal is attached.
> >
> >
> > Review and comments are here *really* wanted!
>
> Comments below; meanwhile I should go and have a look at the full FAQ.
> Yes, its answers badly need revising; but in principle we ought to be
> doing something much more invasive, replacing Questions that are no
> longer Frequently Asked.
Removing some of that questions would be good indeed.
>
> [...]
> > +++ customizing.sgml (Arbeitskopie)
> > @@ -17,8 +17,8 @@
> > without compromising security?
> >
> > <p>Many device files in the <tt>/dev</tt> directory belong to some
> > -predefined groups. For example, <tt>/dev/fd0</tt> belongs to the
> > -<tt>floppy</tt> group, and <tt>/dev/dsp</tt> belongs to the
> > +predefined groups. For example, <tt>/dev/sr0</tt> belongs to the
> > +<tt>cdrom</tt> group, and <tt>/dev/dsp</tt> belongs to the
> > <tt>audio</tt> group.
Yes, /dev/dsp is not existing on my Jessie system.
So we could use "/dev/sda" instead, as owned by group "disk".
> I think /dev/dsp is a relic from the days before ALSA; these days it's
> /dev/snd/*, and the access rights are increasingly handled via ACLs
> managed by logind.
That should be rephrased then, to document the new behaviour.
Has someone with the relevant knowledge a small proposal for this?
(I'm lacking knowledge here, sorry.)
> > +++ ftparchives.sgml (Arbeitskopie)
> > @@ -426,4 +426,6 @@
> > Instructions on how to do this are given in the (obsolete) <url name="Debian Repository
> > HOWTO"
> > id="http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/repository-howto/repository-howto";>.
> > +# Should this link to outdated docu be removed? Or is it better, to keep it,
> > +# since outdated docu is still better than nothing?
>
> It occurs to me that all this advice pre-dates the Debian Wiki.
> Maybe there should be a pointer in that direction instead.
Perhaps
https://wiki.debian.org/HowToSetupADebianRepository
would be a possible target?
>
> > Index: getting.sgml
> > ===================================================================
> > --- getting.sgml (Revision 11091)
> > +++ getting.sgml (Arbeitskopie)
> > @@ -51,7 +51,7 @@
> > the <url name="Debian Security Manual"
> > id="http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/securing-debian-howto/";>.
> >
> > -<sect id="boot-floppies">Where/how can I get the Debian installation disks?
> > +<sect id="boot-disks">Where/how can I get the Debian installation disks?
>
> The problem with "disks" is that we're now using it mostly as a
> coverterm for optical media (e.g. compact discs) and SSDs (e.g. USB
> thumbdrives), and neither of those are technically "disks"!
>
> We could say "installation media", but then there's a danger of
> singular agreement problems.
Maybe use "installation images"?
> [...]
> > <sect id="alternativebootinstaller">Are there any alternative strategies for booting
> > the system installer?
> >
> > <p>Yes. Apart from CD or DVD, you can install Debian GNU/Linux by booting from
> > -floppy disks, USB memory stick, directly from hard disk, or using TFTP net
> > +USB memory stick, directly from hard disk, or using TFTP net
> > booting. For installing on multiple computers it's possible to do fully
> > automatic installations. NB: not all methods are supported by all computer
> > architectures. Once the installer has booted, the rest of the system can be
>
> (I can personally vouch for the fact that it's still possible to do
> Jessie installs off 2GB PATA hard disks and even iOmega Zip disks!)
Ok, but I would value this as a corner case, so not mention in the FAQ.
> > Index: kernel.sgml
> [...]
> > +### There is no package "modconf" in stable anymore.
> > +### Is there still such mechanism in Debian, or is it no longer needed?
> > +
>
> I don't think I'd used it since the days of ISA network cards; the
> idea seems to be that it was made redundant by autodetection, and then
> thrown out during the switch from module-init-tools to kmod.
Ok, so drop it.
> [...]
> > Index: pkg_basics.sgml
> > ===================================================================
> [...]
> > @@ -360,8 +360,7 @@
> > <em/purge/ and <em/hold/ in the package status?
> >
> > <p>These "want" flags tell what the user wanted to do with a package (as
> > -indicated either by the user's actions in the "Select" section of
> > -<tt>dselect</tt>, or by the user's direct invocations of <tt>dpkg</tt>).
> > +indicated by the user's direct invocations of <tt>dpkg</tt>).
>
> Hmm, what "flags" is it thinking of? Should we also mention
> apt/aptitude, given that marking a package for removal in aptitude's
> console UI is another way of applying a persistent status?
The corresponding question for this is
" What is meant by <em/unknown/, <em/install/, <em/remove/, <em/purge/ and
<em/hold/ in the package status?"
And yes, I would add apt and aptitude additionally to dpkg here.
> > <p>Their meanings are:
> > <list>
> > @@ -377,8 +376,7 @@
> >
> > <sect id="puttingonhold">How do I put a package on hold?
> >
> > -<p>There are three ways of holding back packages, with dpkg, aptitude
> > -or with dselect.
> > +<p>There are two ways of holding back packages, with dpkg or aptitude.
> >
> > <p>With dpkg, you have to export the list of package selections, with:
> > <example>dpkg --get-selections \* > selections.txt</example>
>
> Oh, and you can now also use "apt-mark (un)hold"...
Good point, added.
> [...]
> > <sect2 id="dpkg-split">dpkg-split
>
> Is this utility even worth knowing about nowadays? To be honest, even
> in the nineties when I was ferrying "big" (multi-MB) packages about on
> floppies I found it easier to use plain "split"...
Ok, so I would vote for dropping it.
> [...]
> > Index: uptodate.sgml
> > ===================================================================
> > --- uptodate.sgml (Revision 11091)
> > +++ uptodate.sgml (Arbeitskopie)
> > @@ -68,13 +68,13 @@
> > <p>For details, see the manual page <manref name="aptitude" section="8">,
> > and the file <file>/usr/share/aptitude/README</file>.
> >
> > -<sect1 id="apt">apt-get, dselect and apt-cdrom
> > +<sect1 id="apt">apt-get and apt-cdrom
> >
> > <p>An alternative to <prgn/aptitude/ is <prgn/apt-get/ which is
> > APT-based command-line tool (described previously in <ref id="apt-get">).
> >
> > -<p>Both <prgn/apt-get/, the APT-based command-line tool for handling packages, and
> > -<prgn/dselect/, provide a simple, safe way to install and upgrade packages.
> > +<p><prgn/apt-get/, the APT-based command-line tool for handling packages,
> > +provides a simple, safe way to install and upgrade packages.
>
> This repeats "APT-based command-line tool". Ideally we'd rewrite it
> to talk about apt as the "primary" interface and things like apt-get
> and aptitude as alternatives to that.
Starting with Stretch, apt-get and apt-cache calls are changed and
can also be called directly simply via apt:
apt update
apt upgrade
apt full-upgrade
apt remove pkg
apt install pkg
apt show pkg
apt search str
As a result, should we no longer speak of the programs apt-get or
apt-cache, but always speak of apt instead?
So apt would be the primary interface, and aptitude or synaptic would
be alternativ ones.
Holger
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