On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 12:51:06AM +0200, Diederik de Haas wrote: > > >+1 for stopping publishing installers for i386, it has been mentioned > > >many times but it's always worth repeating: electricity costs to keep > > >running i386 hardware are already way higher than what it costs to buy > > >a cheap, low-power replacement like a raspberry pi, that also provides > > >better performance. > > Exactly. > > ... > > If people have strong opinions about that plan, let us know please. > I have *strong* opinions about this. > https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2023/01/msg00372.html was a message/ > plea to not forget about supporting OLD systems. > While it may be a no-brainer for a person with a $/€ 1000 a month residual > income to just buy new hardware whenever they feel like it, that is not the > case for everyone. > To quote (a part) of that email: > > I happen to know of a few derivative projects that have been using > > Debian technology that have brought new life to some really aging equipment > > and some people in either Third World countries or in communities with low > > incomes and either limited or non-existent access to modern equipment. One > > such effort, the antiX distribution, has been effective in reaching poor > > communities in Brazil recently, and has long been able to reach people with > > scaled down Debian technology all over the world. > > > > I'm wondering if there is some way to provide a "hook" or a way for some of > > these ten to twenty year old systems to remain functional for those who may > > not otherwise have a way, other than to run insecure, out of date systems. > > If there is a way, even a "side project", I hope that the Debian community > > can help a few of these derivative distributions assist people worldwide to > > have access to modern technology, > > even from systems that are barely "modern" any more. > Besides people in 'third world countries' (I actually don't like such > qualifications at all), there are also people in the '1st world' who work > their asses off just to put food on the table, and thus also don't have > the money to buy new equipment. But if you want to interact with your own > government, you highly likely will need to have some PC (type) equipment. > It could also provide a way to learn/develop new skills. > It's absolutely true that modern machines are more energy efficient. What is > also true is that the production of new devices has a big environmental > impact. > https://mastodon.green/@gerrymcgovern/110329331475328263 said: > > The European Environmental Bureau has stated that extending the lifespan of > > smartphones and other electronics by just one year would save the EU as > > much carbon emissions as taking two million cars off the roads annually. > I would be VERY disappointed if Debian would abandon people who do NOT have > the means to just buy new equipment whenever they feel like it. > Especially when I see various proposals to make the 'life'/work of companies > who make BILLIONS a YEAR, easier. > (I'll leave my moral objections to several of those aside this time) For businesses, the transition from 32-bit to 64-bit was several depreciation cycles ago. In my city, there is a non-profit that accepts donations of old computers, refurbishes them, installs Linux, and both sells them and provides them free to people in need. They receive x86-64 systems that they determine are *too old to be worth refurbishing* and they e-cycle them. Hanging on to systems using power-hungry chips from 20 years ago instead of intercepting a system such as this is not reducing the number of computers that end up in the waste stream, it just keeps you stuck with a more power-hungry system. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer https://www.debian.org/ slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.org
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