Re: Proposed documentation, please comment! [was Re: Bug#838919: debian-installer: please calculate swap parition according to max RAM...]
On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 02:43:13PM +0200, Bart Schouten wrote:
> I have no problem with what Debian is today,
Actually, you do. You seem to be advocating against systemd; but systemd
*is* what Debian is today. Jessie has been released with systemd as its
default init system, and there are no plans to change that.
> but you seem to have a problem with it.
Nope.
> I am not arguing against something that exists today, I am arguing against
> trying to turn it into a user-friendly system for people like my little
> sister, which I don't have, but she is 34 and would never be able to use
> Debian (or any other Linux variant) to any reasonable degree of proficiency,
That's your hypothetical experience. I, on the other hand, know millions
of hypothetical lay people who are pefectly capable of using Debian.
[...]
> You claim I want to move Debian backwards.
You are placing words in my mouth.
> You speak of "making something difficult". No no, you are trying to "make it
> easy",
No no, I am not doing that. I really am talking about "making something
difficult", which is a good way to avoid getting more users.
There is a whole gray area between the black of "making something
difficult" and the white of "making something easy".
> I am not trying to "make it difficult". I am saying nothing to make
> it "worse" than what it is today, because I don't think today is "bad".
Neither do I. Systemd actually saved me a run to the data center
once[1]. That's a *good* thing.
> So you accuse me of wanting a backward motion to where we stand today (from
> where we stand today). You accuse me of advocating a certain direction.
Again, you are placing words in my mouth.
[...]
> You will get the PR of "Debian is user-friendly, you can use it too!" and
> then you get the disillusioned people that find out the reality of it. Then
> you get the bitterness. Don't make promises you can't keep, please.
The promise I think we should make is that Debian can be used by people
of all kinds of backgrounds -- experts and lay people alike. The former
will probably customize their system; the latter won't. That simply
means we just need to make the defaults work really really well.
That (making the defaults work) is a promise we can easily keep.
[...]
[1] kernel OOM'd sshd. systemd restarted it.
--
< ron> I mean, the main *practical* problem with C++, is there's like a dozen
people in the world who think they really understand all of its rules,
and pretty much all of them are just lying to themselves too.
-- #debian-devel, OFTC, 2016-02-12
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