Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> writes: > Hi, > > Steve Langasek: >> I understand that software (especially desktop software) not coping with >> online updates is an existing problem. > > Not only that. What _do_ you do when version 2 of $SUPPORTING_PACKAGE > implements a broken/superseded API or protocol? You limp along; you either > cannot start any new $DEPENDING_PROGRAMs or, when the supporter has been > restarted, all the dependants instantly break. Unless you restart them too. > > We do some restarting for libc updates, but in a haphazard way (we don't > shut them down _while_ updating, only for some daemons) and for no other > package. > >> The question is whether we - collectively - think moving to offline >> updates is an acceptable way to address this problem. > > The problem is that an offline updater is an attractive nuisance. > > It solves a specific problem which is now rare, precisely because we don't > solve it and therefore spend time and effort to prevent the "offline > update" non-solution from spreading. We should also not underestimate the feeling of control that online updates provide to users. I've often been told by new users that them deciding to click the "Updates Available" (or whatever it says) button, and upgrading their system, made them feel like they were in control of the computer for the first time in their lives. We should not discard that lightly. We should also not exchange bugs of the form "I upgraded the software on my computer, which I think included an ugrade of $foo, and now $bar stopped working" for "$bar stopped working when I ran it" [while not quite thinking: "I would mention the fact that I rebooted last night if I though that was relevant, but I cannot imagine it is, so I won't"] It's all too easy for individual developers to think that only allowing upgrades during reboots will be much safer for their particular application, so where's the harm? I'm sure that the folks at Microsoft are now very aware of the resulting harm, having been fighting to get away from the need for multiple reboots per upgrade for years -- Let's learn from their mistakes and not even start down that road. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/ http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg, GERMANY
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