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Re: default messaging/VoIP client for Debian 8/Jessie

On 31/03/14 13:29, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le lundi 31 mars 2014 à 12:37 +0200, Daniel Pocock a écrit : 
>> Just to clarify, it is not mandatory to install any of Empathy at all
>> when installing a GNOME desktop and the whole of Empathy could be left
>> out if GNOME is the desktop and another client (like Jitsi or Pidgin)
>> was preferred by the Debian community?
> You can use any software you like with GNOME. But AFAIK only Empathy is
> based on Telepathy, which means only Empathy gets integration with
> GNOME. Only Telepathy accounts will be started up automatically and
> their conversations integrated in the shell.
> I agree that Empathy lacks things as a SIP client. But I strongly
> disagree with the idea of moving away from it as the default IM client
> for GNOME. If SIP support in Empathy is not ready for jessie, we can
> still remove the SIP parts and let the user install a SIP client of her
> choice.

The problems with Empathy are not specific to SIP

Most of the problems are the same for XMPP

e.g. a TURN server to relay media across unfriendly NAT routers can be
used to support any type of media stream for a SIP call, an XMPP webcam
session or a pure WebRTC browser session.  Empathy doesn't currently
support standard TURN for any protocol (except a special case for Google
Talk users) and as Simon explained in his email, there is work involved
to change that.

The Jitsi people have done that work.  They may also be willing to take
steps towards achieving better desktop integration, maybe not perfectly,
but maybe sufficient to give the best all-round user experience.  Right
now, there is time to discuss that with them with a realistic
possibility that it would meet our needs for Jessie

However, we need to be willing to say that if they are the first (or
only) ones who do the work and hit that threshold before November, we
will give them a fair go

>> If developers were keen to help and spend time in this area, would it be
>> better to spend that effort on getting Jitsi (or another softphone) to
>> work more smoothly within GNOME or to get Empathy to fill in the gaps
>> discussed in this email or something else?
> Improving the state of the SIP Telepathy stack is definitely the best
> way to go for our users. But back in squeeze, such a thing did not exist
> and we shipped a different client by default for SIP.

Simon has already explained that development on SIP has stopped and that
development of TURN support (for SIP or XMPP) doesn't have any immediate

How do you propose to resolve that?

Arguing that it is the "best way to go for our users" doesn't make new
development happen.

> I would definitely object to shipping one based on Java, though, unless
> it can work with GCJ.

That, too, is another example of making a statement about something
without giving any reasons for it.  Please be more specific and then
maybe people can address your concerns.

Given the time between now and the freeze, I think it would be quite
reasonable to send requests like this (please clarify GCJ support) to
the Jitsi users list

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