On Tue, 07 May 2013 19:46:43 +0200 Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> wrote: > On Tue, 7 May 2013 16:46:46 +0200, md@Linux.IT (Marco d'Itri) wrote: > >On May 07, Thorsten Glaser <tg@debian.org> wrote: > >> My stated goal here is, indeed, to be able to run at least some useful > >> configurations of a Debian installation without *both* bash and dash > >> installed. > >What is the point? > > A smaller footprint of the intalled system? This may be interesting > for embedded things. If the space taken up by bash on top of dash is sufficient to be a problem for an embedded device, then it may be time to think about a different solution for that device (e.g. buildroot). The device is going to hit ENOSPACE very, very soon if removing bash would make even the slightest difference. Emdebian Grip can shrink normal Debian by 40% on average and there is discussion about how much further should be set as a target. That step will be aiming to shrink installs by another 15-20% - not just a handful of Mb. bash is less than 1Mb. Package: bash Source: bash (4.2+dfsg-1) Version: 4.2+dfsg-1em1 Architecture: armel Maintainer: Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org> Installed-Size: 944 http://emdebian.org/grip/search.php?arch=armel&distro=sid-grip&package=bash Please don't waste time on shell changes for a supposedly embedded gain. That is a false argument and only serves to weaken the case for change. I see no reason for this particular idea to be a release goal. Certainly not due to any "embedded gain" or "footprint" argument. Besides, Emdebian already provides mechanisms to not install bash (or any other package in Debian, whether Debian thinks the package is Essential, required or important) - so swapping out individual packages is not the issue. Much better candidates for embedded footprint improvements are trimming dependency chains in some of our most popular libraries: http://wiki.debian.org/EmdebianCrush (Some of those are out of date, I know.) Those steps are massive gains and, individually at least, are probably less work than changes to the shell. Much of the useful work on dependency chains is at a proof-of-concept already due to the build-profile support and Debian package archives. The remaining question is not whether bash or dash is a problem but whether there is enough interest to make it worth providing the reworked libraries with trimmed dependencies & functionality. -- Neil Williams ============= http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/
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