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Re: RFC: Making mail-transport-agent Priority: optional

On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 22:29:56 +0200
Andreas Barth <aba@not.so.argh.org> wrote:

> * Neil Williams (codehelp@debian.org) [111015 22:23]:
> > The problem with "Standard" is that it is currently (and heavily) biased
> > towards multi-user servers and most of the replies in this thread which
> > decry the absence of an MTA would appear to come from those principally
> > concerned with servers. It just doesn't fit with desktop users or
> > embedded users.
> "Standard" is just another word for "what someone expect so it's
> considered as normal unix", which *is* a multi-user server.
> Perhaps the task isn't named perfect, but that's just what standard
> is.

If it was just a task used by tasksel, I'd be happy. The connotation of
Priority: standard in debian/control is somewhat different and, to me
at least, completely unnecessary.

tasksel doesn't need anything in the Packages file, so why do we still
retain Priority: in debian/control other than for Priority: required?
The list of standard packages could just live in /usr/share/tasksel/ -
only one place to change it.

Why is it anywhere else?

It would seem to make things a lot clearer for most people if
the Standard Task was not linked in any way to Priority: * in

> > It appears to be based on an
> > assumption that an experienced sysadmin will connect to the box and
> > wonder where stuff has gone.
> Oh yes, that's the definition.

Then should it not be renamed "Server" instead of Standard? We already
have one of those, there's nothing to say that desktop cannot include
some packages / tasks which are also in server, laptops too. Standard
shouldn't be used in place of a shared task.

On that basis, we should not expect any tools to use this information
other than tasksel.

I think I'm going to have to put something on the Emdebian website
about *not* choosing "Standard" when using the new ISO images using
Debian Installer...

> > That *must* be context-sensitive - many
> > routers are Unix / Linux - some may use .deb packaging systems (at
> > least in the programming stage). Nobody would expect those to have ALL
> > the packages from Priority: standard packages from the full Debian main
> > archive. Debian is just too fat for that.
> Nobody claims that. If you don't expect the standard unix things,
> then don't install standard. End of story.

For non-server tasks I don't. I think there is a reason to not have
server tasks in 'standard'. Quite why locales is considered to be in the
same task list as bind9 is beyond me.

It would be much more useful to be able to choose a task which brings
in locales, file and gettext without also bringing in bind9, exim and
kerberos IMHO.

I may look into that for Emdebian & Debian Installer too....


Neil Williams

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