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Re: Bits from the Release Team - Kicking off Wheezy

On Sun, May 01, 2011 at 11:07:48PM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> On Sun, 01 May 2011, Carsten Hey wrote:
> > > Testing, OTOH, is really unique in that respect, with its mixture of
> > > fresh software and quarantine period.
> > 
> > A 'frozen' requiring most updates to go through *-proposed-updates would
> > make this quarantine period a lot less useful, and it would make
> > circumstances like the one described above a lot more probable.
> >
> > One cause that testing-proposed-updates is not more widely used is that
> > there is no good non-altruistic reason for a user to do so.  More
> > up-to-date packages are available in unstable and more tested packages
> > are available in testing.
> There's a good reason to use testing-proposed-updates during freeze, it
> fixes security and release critical bugs that are present in testing!
> So if we tell users to use this repository, we're going to have
> some users (I upgrade my servers to testing during the freeze and I
> would enable it if it was generally advised for beta-testers).
> But yes there might be some unrelated regressions from time to time.
> There's a reason why it's not labeled "stable" yet.

That's just semantics, Carsten mail is very good, and sums up what I've
said elsewhere in a very clean way.

The problem is, you need to entry points, one for testing as we know it,
one for rolling.

If you use t-p-u for testing and unstable for rolling, or unstable for
testing and rolling-updates for rolling is just bikeshedding. The result
is some of the users will use unstable and help testing, the other sort
will run rolling-updates or rolling.

So basically you split our users in two non overlapping sets, meaning
that you divide coverage and tests. How come is that in the distribution
interest?! I think it's not, I think it's resource squandering.

So please, what is so useful and important that we wast our precious
resources here, have two inconciliable Debians at once? "Because users
want it" doesn't fly. I couldn't care less, I'm interested about *why*
they want it, not the mere fact that they do. Because when you know why
they want it, maybe there will be better answers that don't make
releasing even more brittle and burn even more people out.
·O·  Pierre Habouzit
··O                                                madcoder@debian.org
OOO                                                http://www.madism.org

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