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Re: [Debconf-discuss] GPG keysigning?



Manoj Srivastava wrote:
(...)
        Now really, we want to tie the key to a person -- even if they
 resleeve (a. la. Altered Carbon, [0]). Thankfully, releeving is not
 (yet) possible, so we don't have to deal with that. All we have to do
 is to tie a key to a real live person, and do it in a fashion that is
 reproducible and testable.

        Traditionally, you establish identity for a person by one or
 more of:
   A) Something they (and only they) have. This is previously issued
      tokens of some kind (passports, id cards, secure tokens,
      etc). There are three things needed to make this even the least bit
reliable: 1) You need to trust the process of deploying the thing they have;
         someone must establish in some manner who the person is, before
         the token is given out
      2) The token should not be easily duplicated, stolen, and
         reused. This requires some care on the part of the token holder
      3) You can actually verify that the token is genuine and decipher
         who the token was issued to without being spoofed.
   B) Something that the person is. Biometrics, etc. Again, the caveats
      apply about spoofing, and trusting you know what it is that the
      person is supposed to be (is it really Mr X's retina scan I am
      trying to match?)
   C) Something they know. Shared  secrets, passwords, knowledge of
      events past you and the person knows, and no one else could.

        Madduck seems to put a whole lot of unjustified confidence in C)
 above.  You might think you know the person pretending to be Mr X, but
 really, most of us at debconf have done little to verify C to any
 degree of reliability. If all you can say is that person owns that
 email address, why are you even bothering to have a signing party? You
 don't need it to ascertain that a key owner controls an email address
 by some other persons signature; just send a encrypted message to that
 email address and ask for a reply. Done.

        So, A. Now, most countries where people are allowed to come to
 my country from have to demonstrate a process by which they issue
 travel documents to their citizens, and I have established for myself
 that if  it meets the State departments needs, then !.1 is satisfied
 for me.

        A.2 is somewhat harder, but  being careless about your travel
 documents has real world consequences, and most countries whose
 citizens can travel to mine have made travel docs hard to
 duplicate. Not impossible, but hard.
A.3 seems to be the part which receives most criticism; I can
 surely be spoofed by a well forged travel document. But it does raise
 the bar for someone who needs my signature, and I think it meets my
 threshold of return on effort to sign the key, and put a modicum of
 trust in the assertion that we have nailed that key to a real human
 being.

        So while signing keys is not about governments, as Russ said, it
 is about establishing identity, and government issued identity
 documents are better proxies for establishing that than I can be
 bothered to do myself.

        And, on my day job, people will fall over laughing about basing
 identity on what someone says often enough over a period of time with
 no further checks. And yes, my tummy still hurts.

I think you miss an important item: people with the same name.
In my small town, I know a lot of people with same name (first and surname).
In linux community we have three different Alax Cox.

PGP identity uses normally a email like identity (name and email address), so
your point A reduce the set of possible person that can misuses identity check,
but ... on security terminology this is called false security which is normally
worse than no-security (people will trust wrong thing).

Web of trust is evil! I think debian should reframe the problem and use GPG
only for limited scopes (upload and sign), identified by key ID.
Debian could build an intern web of trust (checking mail and identity, with own
extra rules).

Mails, extern signatures and other gpg things (and identities) should be left
outside debian, with people own interpretations and trustiness.
IMHo combining the two will be a security mess.

ciao
	cate


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