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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

On Tue, Jan 16, 2007, Bernhard R. Link wrote:
> * Lo?c Minier <lool+debian@via.ecp.fr> [070116 10:50]:
> >  I can imagine technical solutions to these problems, such as a) making
> >  XPM optional and automatically generating it when it's not available
> >  (yes, this might result in an ugly icon in some cases, but at least we
> >  will have an ugly icon vaguely ressembling the icon, and it might also
> >  result in nicer icons for PNG capable menu displays), 
> You can just translate the icons yourself.

 I want to spare me the time to do the update manually, but you suggest
 I augment the amount of manual work.  Would the Debian menu system do
 this for me, I wouldn't have to.  I usually prefer it when machines do
 the repetitive instead of me.

>                                            If you consider them ugly,
> just add a new field for "nice" icons and start persuade people to
> tell their menu methods to use those settings first.

 Why reinvent the wheel in the Debian menu system?  Why would I want to
 convert nicely looking upstream icons to an old format which can only
 look uglier?  All desktop environments support pngs, and even svgs.
 And I do not benefit of the Debian menu system personally, I only see
 it as cluttering my GNOME menu, so I prefer spending my time in things
 which improve Debian as well, but which I enjoy doing and don't
 consider useless.

> > b) using the
> >  .desktop files upstream provides to automatically register entries in
> >  the Debian menu (Note that the inverse process exists in menu-xdg :).
> > 
> >  Without this, Debian menu support in Debian packages will always lag
> >  behind as upstream updates its .desktop files, icons etc. or
> >  adds/remove programs.
> Well, to be perhaps a bit too frank: a maintainer that cannot cope with
> menu files should consider orphaning a package.

 I actually don't think orphaning packages make them any better.

 You're welcome to join pkg-gnome and fix the Debian menu entries.  In
 fact, any help is welcome, not just on fixing menu entries.  Hop in
 #gnome-debian on GIMPNet, and I'll be happy to guide you in
 participating to tasks of the team.

>                                                 If you do not even know
> which programs appear and vanish, you simply have lost.

 Sorry, but people make mistakes.  This is why we avoid duplicating data
 in databases, and we avoid duplicating code in programs.  I don't see
 why the Debian menu would be so special that it would require me to
 maintain menu entries in parallel to the .desktop files.

 You've taken the time to criticize my personal position with
 respect to the menu system, I suggest you also take the time to read
 the technical proposals I made to improve the menu system.
   The Debian menu system will not magically become useful to me, but at
 least it will automatically cover packages of maintainers which do not
 make it a priority to support the menu system fully in all their

Loïc Minier <lool@dooz.org>

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