On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 11:37 -0500, Andres Salomon wrote: > On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:55:29 -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: > > > On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 16:35 +0100, Tim Dijkstra wrote: > >> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 08:33:38 -0600 > >> John Goerzen <jgoerzen@complete.org> wrote: > >> > >> > In a more general sense, whether you are religious or not, there is no > >> > denying that the people inspired (for good or ill) by the Bible have > >> > left a remarkable impact on human history: > >> > >> Persecution, terror, war ... > > > > The anti-slavery movement. > > Er. What? Since when does religion have anything to do w/ the > anti-slavery movement? Everything. Google for "abolitionism", and all you'll see are references to religious movements or people compelled by Christian beliefs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolitionism "Saint Patrick, the 5th-century British bishop who popularized Christianity in Ireland, was perhaps the first writer to advocate the abolition of slavery." "the abolitionist movement in the USA was largely an outgrowth of the Second Great Awakening of the early nineteenth century, which encouraged Northern Protestants - especially those among the emerging middle classes - to assume a more active role in both religious and civic affairs. Belief in abolition contributed to the foundation of some denominations, such as the Free Methodist Church." > Oh, right, you must be thinking of those deeply religious slave owners in > the bible belt, who gave plenty of kindness and consideration to their > fellow man.. as long as they were white. It's been my experience that economics almost always trumps ethics. It was economical to use slave in the cotton fields, so "The White People" looked for a moral justification. > Or were you talking about the > spanish conquistadores, eager to spread their religious beliefs to the > indigenous heathens they came upon (and hey, why not grab a few to bring > home and sell, while we're at it?). The conquistadors were, well, conquerors. Using religion as a thin justification. Even I, an atheist, can see that. > Really, I'm not going to argue that religious people have done many good > (as well as bad things), but anti-slavery? C'mon. The people who brought > about changes were the slaves (and former slaves) themselves, and the > people who sympathized with them; some who followed the teachings of the > bible, some who did not. *Most* who were Christians. Ex-slaves were a vital part of the abolitionist movement (Harriet Tubman & Frederick Douglass being the 2 big names), but there were too few of them, they were mostly illiterate, and went straight to Canada. Thus, it was predominately Northern Protestants and like-minded fellows in Britain who were the driving forces. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail. "But peace does not rest in the charters and covenants alone. It lies in the hearts and minds of all people. So let us not rest all our hopes on parchment and on paper, let us strive to build peace, a desire for peace, a willingness to work for peace in the hearts and minds of all of our people. I believe that we can. I believe the problems of human destiny are not beyond the reach of human beings." John F Kennedy
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