On Thu, 25 Mar 2004, Marco d'Itri wrote: > On Mar 25, Roland Stigge <stigge@antcom.de> wrote: > > It's a big difference if we _have_ it (e.g. also microcode in the > > CPU, BIOS, etc.) on our local machine, or if Debian distributes it > > in binary form. > No, there is no difference. Wait, let me get this straight: There's no difference between "having non-free works on a personal machine" and "Debian distributing distributing non-free works"? > You may choose to pretend that it does not by removing it from > debian, but you will be still using non-free code. I hope no one here is pretending that some hardware may not require non-free code when in fact it does. The two issues are: 1) Can Debian distribute the code? [So far, I'm inclined to say no.] 2) Should Debian distribute the code? [The DFSG leads me to believe no, but I'm open to being convinced either way.] Clearly, in order for us to distribute, we need to answer both questions in the affirmative. > > The solution here would be to ask upstream for disclosure of source code > > Dream on... For a few devices it could happen, maybe. But for many > of them this is not possible. It's not that it's not possible, it's that upstream may not want to disclose the source. There's a huge difference between the two. The whole point is to attempt to work with upstream to free the firmware. Quite often it's something that they just haven't thought about and/or gone through the legal formalities to take care of it. Regardless, giving up before asking them isn't going to result in any changes in the situation. > Sometimes because the firmware is a real RTOS, I'm not sure at all what the firmware being a RTOS has to do with it's distributability. > or because of national regulations I'm also unaware of any US or CA regulations[1] that would permit distributing binary firmware but not the source to that firmware. > or because even the hardware manufacturer does not have the source. Since QLogic owns the copyright, it would be quite surprising if they did not also control the source. Obviously, if the manufacturer doesn't control the source, than we need to communicate with whoever does. Don Armstrong 1: QLogic is a California Corporation with headquarters in Aliso Viejo. -- Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people. -- Oscar Wilde http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu
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