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Re: Debian needs more buildds. It has offers. They aren't being accepted.

Hi Ingo and all others!

On 2004-02-11 13:14 +0100, Ingo Juergensmann wrote:
> It's hard to stay polite while running against walls. 

Right, but do you think that getting impolite will speed up anything
or make anybody more cooperative?

> I found the answer from AJ inpolite, so this can be viewed as being
> subjective what each person think is polite or not. 

Right, it may be subjective; according to my subjective feeling I
found AJ's answer appropriate, and calling people idiots not.

> And it's easy to be on ajs side when you don't need your packages get built
> but it can't because the buildd admin don't make his job. 

I only agree with AJ that Nathanael's rude statements are leading
nowhere; However, I agree to Nathanael that something must be done
about the buildd (and also other fields of) administration; James,
Ryan & Co. really do a great job and they really earn more "thank
you"s, but as a matter of fact they don't scale as fast as Debian
does, so they should get assistance.

> Probably it would be worth a try to add your packages to weak-no-auto and
> then wait how fast you will start to complain and see when you'll get
> inpolite when we just ignore you? 

I will certainly get impatient and upset, but you will not find me
calling Anthony, Nathanael, you, or anybody else an idiot.

> Complaints most often have reasons. Denying that just means you simply
> hasn't hit the reason on your own. 

As I already said: I appreciate your complaints (and in fact support
it), but I don' appreciate the childish style of communication here
(of both sides).

So where are we: we obviously need more buildds, we obviously had
offered machines and people willing (and hopefully capable of)
administering them. On the other side, we have the people currently
being in charge, which (according to your complaints) seem to ignore
the problem and/or you. And third, we have the DPL who does not seem
to give an official opinion.

So what can be done about this? Calling people idiots will only help
to destroy your credibility and reputation, so IMHO is not an option.
Debian has democratic means of changing something if the DDs are not
satisfied with their administration, so why don't you call for a GR?
[1] does not say that the initiator must be a DD; if that is
necessary, then ask on this list (or on -vote) for a DD who initiates
your proposal for you. I would support putting some more admins in
charge if it is necessary. 

Of course I have to spend some time to do some research about the
matter on my own (currently I only rely on your statements) to base my
eventual vote in a GR on first-hand knowledge. By now I would only
support the initiation of a GR.

So please keep up with this and make some noise (but stay polite).

Thanks for listening and any comments, and have a nice day!


[1] http://www.debian.org/vote/howto_proposal
Martin Pitt                 Debian GNU/Linux Developer
martin@piware.de                      mpitt@debian.org
http://www.piware.de             http://www.debian.org

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