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Re: Automake packages



* Joseph Carter (knghtbrd@bluecherry.net) wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 10:03:04PM -0400, Eric Dorland wrote:
> > > I think you have let one too many people who have taken leave of their
> > > senses get to you with these packages already.  I have yet to see a
> > > package which ran with 1.5 that does not run with 1.6 (and I've been
> > > looking for them!)
> > 
> > Well as a mathematics professor I had once said, "Examples do not
> > constitute a proof". Have you asked the automake developers about
> > this? No offense, but they would know better then you. 
> 
> I've read the changelogs.  The GNU people are nothing if not careful about
> changelogging their changes.

Hmmmm, they've still made no real guarantees in their documentation
that it will work in all cases (or even 99% of the cases). But if
you test everything that depends on automake1.5 and it all works with
automake1.6, or is fixed to work, I see no point in keeping it around. 
 
> 
> > > I get to choose being able to RTFM _OR_ being able to compile .... just
> > > about every package out there.  Not a good choice, please make the
> > > packages not conflict in this manner.  Especially it would be good if you
> > > could make both sets of docs installable at the same time.  I'd much
> > > rather have automake 1.4's docs than automake 1.4, since that will tell me
> > > what I need to make sure my scripts are compatible backward and
> > > forward.
> > 
> > I am not happy with this solution either. But the automake upstream
> > packages it this way, ie their info files are not versioned. I sent a
> > mail to their mailing list about this issue, but received no
> > response. I'm always reluctant to really hack up upstream's way of
> > doing things. My knowledge of info is not incredible, but I believe
> > doing this sanely is non-trivial.
> 
> Perhaps whoever did it for autoconf can help?  That might have been aj I
> think.
 
That would be nice. But I need something maintainable... not something
that i need to fiddle with for hours after there's a new release of
automake. 

> > Well I always planned to provide alternatives on 'automake', I just
> > thought it was much more important to get these packages in and sane,
> > and then add that.
> 
> Then why hold off on doing this?  The packages are basically not very
> useful to software developers until that's done.

That's a ridiculous statement. They are still very useful for people
who need it to build their packages. So users have to do
"automake-1.6" instead of "automake". They can tough it out for a few
days. And if your programs depend on automake 1.6, they should call it
by automake-1.6, or more compatibility issues could bite them in the
ass.

And besides, I wanted to add this feature to all the automake packages
at once to ease upgrading. I'm "holding off" for a good reason.
 
> > I don't think anyone is saying that fixing this would be a bad
> > thing. They're just wary of a lot of breakage, which I think is
> > smart. Caution is the better part of valor. 
> 
> I don't disagree.  I believe 1.4 should be what you get when you ask for
> automake by default - this isn't a question of compatibility as that 1.6
> is still new software and people may prefer to stick with what they know
> works until they know that the new version also works.  The new version
> needs to be readily available for the more adventurous to work on, though.

Well I absolutely agree.

> The problem is that your current packages are simply not useful for ever
> making automake1.6 not an experimental thing, and I think they should be
> fixed.  I can't help immediately with the info stuff, but if nobody else
> can either, I'll figure it out.

They're not *broken*. They don't do everything I want them to do, but
they're completely useful. They're going to get there, just keep your
pants on. It's not going to be useful to anyone if I don't get it into
main, so that's priority one. I'll see what I can do about making
"perfect" packages tomorrow.

-- 
Eric Dorland <dorland@lords.com>
ICQ: #61138586, Jabber: hooty@jabber.com
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