Re: Woody and start anew, XF4.2 and Mozilla too.
[please stop this crossposting madness. please stop not attaching a
valid in-reply-to, forcing me to read this awful thread. Please trim
your quotes.]
Loren Jordan wrote:
At 04:17 PM 6/10/2002 -0500, Paul Baker wrote:
On Sunday, June 9, 2002, at 03:24 AM, Anthony DeRobertis wrote:
Enhancements" and not really true bug fixes... This world has taught
most all [L]users that software must be upgraded very often. We admins
don't really like this idea however we support the users. This mostly
This is generally really bad practice for a bulk of users. You will
experience one of the following issues
A) Developers will tear your heart out when you either have:
- Inconsistently installed machines
- Compiled binaries stop working every other week and need to be recompiled.
B) Users have paradigm issues as applications act differently every
couple weeks. Losing consistency in a computing environment really
botches productivity and can bother users. I'm not talking about
desktop consistency either, I'm talking about consistency between day to
day in the same application.
When you are maintaining a cluster of systems, OS upgrades are the
things you most dread because there is a lot, I repeat A LOT of
testing that must be done before rolling things out.
Actually, clusters in the 'all the machines are the same' sense take me
the least time. Its when you happen to have 200 *differing* machines,
some with quad processors and some with ISA cards. Minimising the
differences in kernels across that range of machines is harder. Having
a fast machine helps. Having excellent tools like discover (PROGENY
ROCKS) at your disposal to minimise setup time is also great.
The IMPORTANT thing is to keep your envrionment as consistent as
possible for each developer group. If I upgrade their compute machines,
I better damn well have a way to upgrad their desktop machines within a
week or so or fear the pending doom.
You test on a non-production machine if/when you have one... I know
that you already know this however some of us don't have "test boxes"
I keep on losing my test box to other things. :|
and must be very careful when upgrading, this is where I only want
security fixes... I have a copy of vmware, this is my test box!
Very much suggested. I'm going to be sure to get my boss to get me
another 256mb of ram and a copy of vmware to work on.
releases so often. We as systems admins are forced to support the users
that rely on our systems. The users require that we have available to
them all the latest and greatest versions of stuff.
[... removed 'i got hacked' rant ...]
To *some* applications. I believe there is support within the
orginisation to release service packs or update packs to upgrade key
parts of non-base software that users depend on. This has the benefit
of not mucking with the base system and providing users with the
software they desire. I'm not sure of this support, and would be
interested to work with people outside of the debian project to
jumpstart such an effort for woody. Part of that effort would just be
figuring out what software to track and finding people willing to
backport packages sanely from cid to woody.
Ok, bus is getting into town, later. [mozilla's offline mode rocks.]
--
Scott Dier <dieman@ringworld.org> http://www.ringworld.org/
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