Re: Debian boot system
On Sat, 07 Oct 2000, Michael Moerz wrote:
> > Just cancel out the parallilism for a boot, and you know right there if
> > it is the root of the problem. If it is, your dependencies are wrong.
> > Race conditions might be a nightmare when programming, but when running
> > shellscripts? The problems should be more trivial and less problematic,
> > especially as you add redundant dependencies.
> > About the log mixing: How about seperate logs for seperate daemons?
> > Perhaps putting it all together as a final step of the boot process?
>
> Oh, yeah, why not patch every daemon in this and that direction adding
> this feature and an other, so making it impossible to run unpatched
> daemons.
Patch every daemon? You misunderstood me, just redirect the output of the
script from the Makefile itself.
Any extra fucntionality such as maintainance of the Makefiles is possible to
add to packages.
> > Yes, I have mixed output, the dots are everywhere :) All fixable.
>
> All fixable? did you ever think of missing output? Did you ever really
> read the make - infopage ? I did, I know make, and I have used it to it's
> best. OUTPUT might get lost, mixed and whatever. That is not desireable.
> And opposing someone to boot non parallelised when having problems won't
> solve them. As I stated before a way to determine when and what was
> running is the only way to disolve this issue. There are no other nifty
> tricks that can be played around this.
Output can get lost? I went through the INFO page briefly, and read about
the mixed output concerns further, but there's no mention of losing output.
Can you direct me to the exact place where that is written? The simple
collection of individual output logs of the init scripts, with timestamps on
everything, should be quite enough info. to know what happened when, very
specifically.
> Actually I highly suggest you to read the make-infopage before you go on
> telling me that it is easily fixable. You would have to redirect the
> output of all services started and to put it back together for logging.
> There comes in the issue that during this building of output the computer
> might get hung and the last and important messages for solving the problem
> might get lost. I hope I have now pointed you out at the *real* problem.
If the computer hanging makes the daemon lose its last messages, when
parallilsm is turned off, how is it ANY different from the traditional SysV
last lines of the logs getting lost?
When having problems, I think its safe to say you want and will disable
parallilsm. Without parallilsm, there is not much of a difference between
SystemV and the Makefile, from the aspect of logs, the way the order of the
commands is deduced is the only difference in that case.
> I really do not wanna turn you down nor I intend to offend your idea. I
> think it's really nice having such a parallelised boot, but not when I
> will loose determinisation what caused my computer to stop at boot.
Cancelling out parallilsm temporarily should be a resolution of most of these
problems.
Other problems in parllilsm itself are resolvable by checking which daemons
were still unloaded (those loaded _DO_ appear in the logs), and checking
their dependencies.
Eyal Lotem
Reply to: