Re: Re: Sponsor request for 'Open Surge'
Hi Bruno,
Thank you for your reply.
By playing Johan's songs in our game, we are paying homage to an
artist who has contributed greatly to our project.
By the way, Johan himself has uploaded that very same music to
opengameart.org, this time under the CC-BY-SA 3.0:
https://opengameart.org/content/theme-from-open-surge
Johan can no longer speak on this plane, but I can speak for him. Even
though he said we could use his music under the public domain, I think
it's more fair if we used it under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 instead. We begin
to pick a license that requires attribution if his music is used
elsewhere, as a way to honor his work. The copyright file of the
Debian package could reflect that choice.
Looking forward to seeing Open Surge in Debian,
Alexandre
Em qui., 31 de dez. de 2020 às 02:36, Bruno Kleinert
<fuddl@mailbox.org> escreveu:
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> Am Mittwoch, dem 30.12.2020 um 15:02 -0300 schrieb Alexandre Martins:
>
> Hi. Upstream here.
>
>
> From what I've seen in Open Surge it seems this is another example of upstream copying random files from the web and pretend to have the permission to create derivate works from them and redistribute them
>
>
> Let me clarify a few things. We never "copy random files from the
>
> web". The "copyright issue" you have raised is not valid.
>
>
> Johan Brodd (aka jobromedia) has created the song Minds Wide Open
>
> (theme.ogg) for Open Surge. He joined our project years ago and
>
> contributed with his musical talent.
>
>
> Free content is very important to our project and I talk to artists
>
> about it. I have talked to Johan about his music and he has agreed to
>
> release it under the public domain. Unfortunately, Johan passed away a
>
> few years back (we have even included a RIP in our credits screen).
>
>
> While not directly related to musics/theme.ogg, in a forum thread
>
> dated from December 2011 I explain to Johan about free content and
>
> then he decides to release his files under the public domain:
>
> http://forum.opensurge2d.org/viewtopic.php?id=1114
>
>
> Regarding musics/theme.ogg specifically, I invite you to take a look
>
> at a screenshot of a private conversation between me and Johan, where
>
> he expresses gratitude for having that music included in the game:
>
> http://forum.opensurge2d.org/misc/jobro_theme.png He is a deceased man
>
> now, but he has made that music for Open Surge, and it's free. He
>
> cared and he has provided great free music to our project. The
>
> inference that our project "copies random files from the web and
>
> pretend to have permission" sounds disrespectful to me and to
>
> everybody who has contributed content.
>
>
> Thanks for providing the links. From https://forum.opensurge2d.org/viewtopic.php?pid=8700#p8700 "[…] I set all my files to public domain now […]" is the crucial piece of information. I consider it worthy to document that within the distribution of the game. Other FLOSS distributions, e.g., fedora, also benefit from clear copyright and license documentation.
>
>
> Let me also clarify that our C source code is released under the
>
> GPLv3, but our artwork is mostly under the CC-BY 3.0. We also have a
>
> few files under the public domain and under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 (check
>
> our credits screen). In addition, we have a scripting system called
>
> SurgeScript inside the game; scripts written in SurgeScript (.ss
>
> files) are released under the MIT license.
>
>
> We have never re-licensed any CC-BY-SA 3.0 content to the GPLv3.
>
> Artwork is not code. Years ago I read about a claimed incompatibility
>
> between the CC-BY-SA and the GPL, but I have learned since that this
>
> doesn't hold. My understanding is that they are compatible and can be
>
> mixed in a game. The popular SuperTux mixes CC-BY-SA artwork with GPL
>
> code, as can be seen in their README
>
> https://github.com/SuperTux/supertux
>
>
> My apologies, the re-licensing was something I misunderstood from Carlos. For a Debian package it's required to document all respective copyright holders and respective licenses in file /usr/share/doc/<package>/copyright.
>
> That file's content must be carefully gathered and verified to avoid any possibilities of copyright infringements or license violations by Debian as we redistribute the work and must make sure to have the permission to do so. That's why me and sure many other Debian Developers are keen on clear and unambiguous copyright and licensing documentation of upstream work.
>
> To get an idea of what this file looks like, take a look at out work-in-progess here: https://salsa.debian.org/games-team/opensurge/-/blob/debian/master/debian/copyright
>
> Btw. in licenses/ there seems to be https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode.txt missing for the CC-BY-SA-3.0 licensed content.
>
>
> I hope this sorts it out. If you find any issues, I'm open and willing
>
> to help. I too would like to see our project in Debian. What has been
>
> claimed, however, is a non-issue.
>
>
> I'm sensitive to re-licensing issues without permission. Two game projects come immediately to my mind where this was done.
>
> Thank you Martin, I appreciate upstream cooperation! I know this isn't obligatory.
>
>
> Finally, I would like to ask you all, and in particular Carlos
>
> Donizete, to wait until the upcoming 0.5.2.0 release before uploading
>
> the package.
>
>
> Happy new year,
>
> Alexandre
>
>
> Thank you, the same to you!
>
> Cheers,
> Bruno
>
>
>
> Em qua., 30 de dez. de 2020 às 11:07, Carlos Donizete Froes
>
> <coringao@riseup.net> escreveu:
>
>
> -------- Mensagem encaminhada --------
>
> De: Bruno Kleinert <fuddl@mailbox.org>
>
> Para: Carlos Donizete Froes <coringao@riseup.net>
>
> Cc: Debian Games Team <debian-devel-games@lists.debian.org>
>
> Assunto: Re: Sponsor request for 'Open Surge'
>
> Data: Wed, 30 Dec 2020 09:22:38 +0100
>
>
> Am Mittwoch, dem 30.12.2020 um 01:01 -0300 schrieb Carlos Donizete Froes:
>
>
> Hi Bruno,
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, I found a blocker from uploading the package: The licensing and
>
>
> copyright information of the game's data is missing in debian/copyright. I
>
>
> added debian/TODO to document that issue, i.e., there's still quite some work
>
>
> ahead to gather the respective copyright holders and licenses for data files.
>
>
> I picked random samples and it seems that some graphics files have that
>
>
> information in the image, while for the audio and music files copyright
>
>
> holders and license is mostly unclear. Please get in touch with upstream to
>
>
> get this sorted out!
>
>
>
> Sorry, but I didn't understand what you need and what needs to be corrected to
>
>
> have all this work and mandatory part in the licenses, since the upstream itself
>
>
> declares in the main project directory that the license is GPLv3.
>
>
>
> If upstream includes a piece of work which has a license that forbids re-licensing, e.g., images/hydra.png is CC-BY-SA-3.0, then upstream has no permission to re-license it under GPL-3. I'm not a lawyer, but would expect this could only work if upstream has a written exception permission by the original author to re-license a piece of work. Since there is no permission released with Open Surge, we cannot assume this permission exists.
>
>
>
> Is it really necessary to ask upstream to add all licenses to files such as
>
>
> audio, music and images that it has created and that declares GPLv3?
>
>
>
> Yes, because Debian must make sure it does not redistribute work that was pirated by upstream.
>
>
> It seems there's even such an example in Open Surge:
>
>
> fuddl@flutschi:~/debian/opensurge/opensurge/musics$ ogginfo theme.ogg
>
> Processing file "theme.ogg"...
>
> […]
>
> TITLE=Minds wide open
>
> ARTIST=Johan Brodd
>
> […]
>
>
> I searched the web for that song and found it on vimeo: https://vimeo.com/80347147
>
>
> The license information provided there states: Atrribution, Non-commercial, no derivates. Those conditions disqualify it to go into Debian's 'main' section. Without permission, even upstream has no permission to re-license that file under GPL-3 and we need clarification what's going on here.
>
>
> For the moment and the Debianizing work, this means all such files with unclear license must be removed from the package or better be replaced and replacements should be offered to upstream.
>
>
>
> There is no way to inform this in the debian directory itself, otherwise, more
>
>
> details of what is happening and what is missing would be necessary for me to
>
>
> forward to the project developer.
>
>
>
> I apologize that I was wrong in some cases, e.g., some creative common licenses permit re-licensing, so to some (but not all) files, the GPL-3 applies. I pushed corrections to my original mess :)
>
>
> However, there are still files included in Open Surge for which it is unclear if upstream has the permission to redistribute or re-license them.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for your help. Happy 2021!
>
>
>
>
> You're welcome. From what I've seen in Open Surge it seems this is another example of upstream copying random files from the web and pretend to have the permission to create derivate works from them and redistribute them. If upstream doesn't have that permission, Debian doesn't either. That's why this must be sorted out with upstream before I can upload the package.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ Carlos Donizete Froes [a.k.a coringao]
>
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian Wiki: https://wiki.debian.org/coringao
>
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ GPG: 4096R/B638B780
>
> ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀ 2157 630B D441 A775 BEFF D35F FA63 ADA6 B638 B780
>
>
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