Re: Steam for Linux? No thanks.
On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 00:44:28 Gerfried Fuchs wrote:
> > Do you want facts that Steam and DRM are "married"? It is also quite
> > clear.
>
> "quite clear" it is not.
Are you serious? Did you read Wikipedia page or anything about Steam?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_%28software%29
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/03/03/steam-guard-protect-steam-password/
If you read about Steam and still think it is not a form of DRM then perhaps you're
in denial, but that's a different issue, not lack of evidence.
> Web browsers, torrent clients and other
> downloaders are also providing easy access to non-free potentially DRM
> encumbered content.
In the context of our discussion I believe this argument is so absurd that
I'm not even sure what to reply... Sorry.
> > Then what kind of facts do you expect?
>
> One that doesn't go with "quite clear" and leaves the after taste of
> "you are all too dumb to see it" without any pointer where to see it.
I think it could be equally disrespectful to readers to treat them as
those who can't research the subject on their own.
The very description of Steam say about DRM -- why you demand more proof?
If Steam-DRM relationships are not obvious to you then perhaps you
need to provide evidence to explain what makes you think so and why do you
reject Steam's description.
If after reading about Steam you're still in denial regarding DRM then
probably it won't help even if I chew more information for you...
Of course I could misunderstand something but at least (I hope) I do
not dismiss the evidence...
> Noone can know the future, and a hypothetical future
> shouldn't influence the here and now.
There is a big difference between hypothetical and probable future.
They put so much effort to carefully craft such a system with DRM and not
use it? Give me a break... Why do you grant Steam such enormous credit
of trust?
> > Isn't badness of such game distribution system is obvious?
>
> Again a "you are too dumb to see it" sentence? Really?
It is indeed peculiar that you feel word "obvious" as offensive. :)
I admit I didn't write an essay about the subject and I don't feel it is
necessary as long as you can do your own research without blaming me for
not boiling down the information for you.
> One that doesn't read "is obvious" or "quite clear", because seemingly,
> it is neither obvious or clear, otherwise we wouldn't have this
> discussion, at all.
Frankly I'm starting to think that between you and me we're having this
discussion because I'm too lazy to make information digestible for you
while you're too lazy to research it on your own. If you're just
denying/dismissing my arguments for no reason then all my efforts to explain
are worthless anyway... Also it could be that we just disagree about the
importance of harm caused by DRM...
> People will use steam, no matter how much you like it or not. Legal
> reasoning doesn't block non-free from distributing it, and if someone is
> willing to invest their time into it, they have my blessing. I am not
> so arrogant to "demand" from others that they aren't allowed to do what
> they ... actually _are_ allowed to do.
I wish those who decide to invest their time to Steam have more concerns
about DRM and the consequences of its promotion.
If raising the awareness about those issues is arrogance then I am arrogant.
It's better to speak up than be sorry later.
> > Without the above argument I think supporters of Steam are left with
> > nothing but their willingness to bring Steam despite all concerns. (They
> > are of course free to do that as long as their work is policy
> > compliant).
>
> I've seen only "potential" concerns, and you start to argue with a
> future that isn't written yet.
I think design of Steam screams about DRM certainty. But you may be right
that the scale of the problem is not yet too dramatic to worry.
Would you rather make up your mind after abuse, even though it is preventable?
> > Instead of demands for strong case against Steam I would like to hear if
> > you have anything to support the cause. Why some want Steam in Debian?
> > What for? What good can come out of it?
>
> What good can come out of anything if we don't even try?
Sorry that doesn't make sense. For example I doubt it worth trying drugs
to see if any "good can come out" of it because most certainly it won't.
Anyway thanks for arguing. I have nothing more to add and I hardly feel
desire to continue...
Regards,
Dmitry Smirnov
GPG key : 4096R/53968D1B
---
We occasionally stumble over the truth but most of us pick ourselves up
and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
-- Winston Churchill
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