Hi there, On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 02:29:56PM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: > [ Mail-Followup-To: -derivatives ] > > Dear Developers, > […] > To represent Debian's views instead of only my own, I'm looking for > feedback on how do you think relationships among the two projects have > evolved in the past 18 months. I'll surely mention that many of the > initiatives we are now doing for *all* Debian derivatives out there > sprinkled from the idea of setting up a "front desk" in Debian for > Ubuntu people. Idea that we then generalized, with very useful results. Thanks, I was waiting for this mail. I'll be at UDS too but I wanted to raise one point that I have been making a small amount of noise about for a while lately and I think deserves some wider attention. There is a push, and coming with it a growing movement, to get applications into Ubuntu via a new Application Review process (aka extras.ubuntu.com) which is a parallel repository available for stable releases only that is not a part of the distribution. I have seen numerous people advising authors to direct their packages towards this new process instead of the usual Debian→Universe→Backports route into a stable release. Some members of the community are promoting, in tandem with these developments, a push for a smaller Universe and indeed a questioning of why one would want to contribute upstream at all. Here's a couple of quotes from recent mailing list threads ,----[ https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-September/034112.html ]- | If I'm a developer who wants my package in Ubuntu, why would I want to | maintain it for Debian, a distro I don't even use? | | It seems to me asking developers to get their software into Debian first | is likely to discourage them further. `---- ,----[ https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-October/034208.html ]- | It's maybe time that we start pushing upstream to get their softwares | in extras.ubuntu.com and not in the distribution? `---- Also see http://developer.ubuntu.com/ which is the new portal for application developers and pushes them towards this extras process. I am struggling to find Debian mentioned there. It seems to me that this is a fundamental shift in what we consider a distribution to be, becoming a 'platform' on top of which people offer applications (the app-store model which the software centre promotes) rather than a collection of all the great Free Software out there. I fear a negative impact on both distribution developer motivation and the quality of the distros (including a knock-on impact on Debian as upstream) if this new method of distributing apps takes hold and the next generation of nice applications never see themselves in the distribution. WDYT? Is there a real problem here? > As a more specific request, I'm also looking for help in collecting > numerical figures about how work is flowing among Debian and Ubuntu. In > particular, if you have data handy that could show the *evolution over > time* of stuff like: > > - number of patches originating in one project and accepted in the > other I ran a simple query for ubuntu-patch usertagged bugs by year: ,---- | SELECT usertags.tag AS tag, EXTRACT(month FROM bugs.arrival) AS month, | EXTRACT(year FROM bugs.arrival) AS year, COUNT(tag) AS count FROM | bugs_usertags usertags, bugs WHERE usertags.id = bugs.id AND tag = | 'ubuntu-patch' GROUP BY year, month, tag ORDER BY year DESC, month DESC, | count DESC; `---- Obviously it's only as good as the data, but it's attached FWIW. > - number of people active in one project becoming active in the other Definitely at least two of this year's DD intake (and one in NM), including myself, started out in Ubuntu and have migrated over. Regards, -- Iain Lane [ iain@orangesquash.org.uk ] Debian Developer [ laney@debian.org ] Ubuntu Developer [ laney@ubuntu.com ] PhD student [ ial@cs.nott.ac.uk ]
tag | month | year | count --------------+-------+------+------- ubuntu-patch | 10 | 2011 | 18 ubuntu-patch | 9 | 2011 | 110 ubuntu-patch | 8 | 2011 | 59 ubuntu-patch | 7 | 2011 | 86 ubuntu-patch | 6 | 2011 | 42 ubuntu-patch | 5 | 2011 | 43 ubuntu-patch | 4 | 2011 | 16 ubuntu-patch | 3 | 2011 | 35 ubuntu-patch | 2 | 2011 | 20 ubuntu-patch | 1 | 2011 | 23 ubuntu-patch | 12 | 2010 | 13 ubuntu-patch | 11 | 2010 | 21 ubuntu-patch | 10 | 2010 | 8 ubuntu-patch | 9 | 2010 | 6 ubuntu-patch | 8 | 2010 | 10 ubuntu-patch | 7 | 2010 | 13 ubuntu-patch | 6 | 2010 | 6 ubuntu-patch | 5 | 2010 | 6 ubuntu-patch | 4 | 2010 | 2 ubuntu-patch | 3 | 2010 | 4 ubuntu-patch | 2 | 2010 | 12 ubuntu-patch | 1 | 2010 | 16 ubuntu-patch | 12 | 2009 | 9 ubuntu-patch | 11 | 2009 | 51 ubuntu-patch | 10 | 2009 | 4 ubuntu-patch | 9 | 2009 | 7 ubuntu-patch | 8 | 2009 | 10 ubuntu-patch | 7 | 2009 | 6 ubuntu-patch | 6 | 2009 | 7 ubuntu-patch | 4 | 2009 | 5 ubuntu-patch | 3 | 2009 | 2 ubuntu-patch | 2 | 2009 | 2 ubuntu-patch | 1 | 2009 | 14 ubuntu-patch | 12 | 2008 | 3 ubuntu-patch | 11 | 2008 | 9 ubuntu-patch | 10 | 2008 | 2 ubuntu-patch | 9 | 2008 | 3 ubuntu-patch | 8 | 2008 | 2 ubuntu-patch | 7 | 2008 | 4 ubuntu-patch | 6 | 2008 | 17 ubuntu-patch | 5 | 2008 | 3 ubuntu-patch | 3 | 2008 | 4 ubuntu-patch | 2 | 2008 | 7 ubuntu-patch | 1 | 2008 | 4 ubuntu-patch | 12 | 2007 | 2 ubuntu-patch | 11 | 2007 | 5 ubuntu-patch | 10 | 2007 | 1 ubuntu-patch | 7 | 2007 | 1 ubuntu-patch | 6 | 2007 | 1 ubuntu-patch | 4 | 2007 | 1 ubuntu-patch | 2 | 2007 | 1 ubuntu-patch | 10 | 2006 | 1 ubuntu-patch | 9 | 2006 | 1 ubuntu-patch | 8 | 2006 | 1 ubuntu-patch | 4 | 2006 | 1 ubuntu-patch | 8 | 2005 | 1 ubuntu-patch | 4 | 1999 | 1 (57 rows)
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