On 15/12/2020 22:07, Sam Hartman wrote:
However, Debian remains an environment where developers and users can explore and develop alternate init systems and alternatives to systemd features. Those interested in exploring such alternatives need to provide the necessary development and packaging resources to do that work. Technologies such as elogind that facilitate exploring alternatives while running software that depends on some systemd interfaces remain important to Debian. It is important that the project support the efforts of developers working on such technologies where there is overlap between these technologies and the rest of the project, for example by reviewing patches and participating in discussions in a timely manner.We did not say in that GR that we were interested in supporting ongoing development of sysvinit.
I find it surprising that, in a TC bug about (inter alia) whether a dependency on libpam-systemd should be changed to default-logind | logind i.e. to facilitate use of elogind you appear to be saying that a GR text that talks about the importance of "technologies such as elogind" should be interpreted as meaning in effect that actually it isn't all that important and network-manager should continue to have effectively a systemd-only dependency.
Not is it straightforwardly clear that "alternative init systems" should in fact be interpreted to mean "alternative init systems (but not sysvinit)".
Nor is this a case of someone demanding that the network-manager maintainer provide a sysvinit script nor fix the bugs in an existing-but-broken one.
By analogy, consider a Finnish translation for a package - as a maintainer I don't know enough Finnish to write nor usefully evaluate a particular translation; but I apply it to my package if one is supplied. If it's erroneous enough that bug reports pile up about it and no-one supplies a fix, I might eventually pull it from the package. But some of the arguments in this thread seem quite close to "non-systemd users might have a slightly less good experience with network-manager, so we should prevent them from using it at all" - which would be like me deciding that my Finnish users might get slightly imperfect messages so I shouldn't support that language at all.
Regards, Matthew