Thanks, Phil. On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 10:18:23AM +0100, Philip Hands wrote: > It makes the "what do you want to install?" menu slightly worse by > introducing some more befuddling options to it. It was already dire > though. exactly. > Before this… [...] > So, this was already a disaster area: > > What does selecting Debian Desktop Environment, but none of the > desktops do (it gives you Gnome, but there's no real hint here) > > How about if you deselect Debian Desktop Environment, and select Gnome > and KDE? (the desktop tasks all depend on task-desktop, so you get it > anyway AFAIK, but that's not the impression given). > > What is a print server? (CUPS) web server? (apache2) > > What do you get if you install without the standard system utilities, > does that still hold if you install a full desktop? > > Are we really expecting the people that we feel we must protect from > package names by hiding the fact that we're talking about CUPS and > Apache to know what LXQt is? exactly. > After adding the blends, that becomes this (having just used the daily > mini.iso downloaded this morning): > > [x] Debian Desktop Environment > [ ] ... Gnome > [ ] ... Xfce > [ ] ... KDE > [ ] ... Cinnamon > [ ] ... MATE > [ ] ... LXDE > [ ] ... LXQt > [ ] web server > [x] print server > [ ] SSH server > [x] standard system utilities > [ ] Special tasks > [ ] ... astronomy (Debian Astro) > [ ] ... games and fun (Debian Games) > [ ] ... life sciences and medicine (Debian Med) indeed, this is what it looks today. Just verified myself too. And this *is* still pretty confusing, though admitly better than it was half a year ago. > so that then prompts one to wonder: > > what the hell is "Special tasks" and what will I get if I select it? exactly > Do I need to select that to get Debian Med, say? > (no, it's just an empty header AFAIK) > > it also buries the 'standard system utilities' item in the middle of > the list, where it makes even less sense than it did at the end. and it will only get worse, if we would keep it this way… We have *many* more blends in Debian… Debian Parl, Debian Junor, Debian Edu come to my mind immediatly. why list some and not some others? and really, the list is too long already. please read https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=758116#320 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=758116#340 > So, I'd say that the whole thing was a car-crash anyway, and this just > dropped a cigarette in the spilling petrol. *hahaha* > The real problem is that there's not been the effort available in the > d-i team to come up with some better way of presenting the question. yes. and that this bug should not be about this tasksel menu but *about this was implemented*, which is by forcing an unneeded package on each and every Debian system under the sun. (priority: important…) - while this could have been implemented using udebs, thus not affecting installed systems! (debian-edu-profile-udeb is an existing example how to do that.) But really, there are two issues: how the menu should look like and whether we want "random" packages to be allowed to declare themselves priority: important and to be installed everywhere. I failed to make this clear initially, though I have tried by filing #846003 (and 005+006) as well. -- cheers, Holger, who will try his very best to shut up on this issue now. I have other fish to fry, and as I'm used to do "apt install screen vim less git" on any new system, I will get used to type "apt remove blends-tasks" as well. It's just stupid and bad design.
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