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Re: Bug#762194: Automatic switch to systemd on wheezy->jessie upgrades

On Friday, 19 de September de 2014 17:16:11 Josh Triplett escribió:
> On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 13:44:43 +0100 Ian Jackson 
<ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> > Package: tech-ctte
> > At the risk of generating confusion due to a duplication of threads:
> On the contrary, thank you for moving this to a separate thread.
> I would like to propose that, if the TC addresses this point at all, it
> does so sequentially rather than in parallel.  I think it's worth
> addressing 746578 first, which (assuming apt does the right thing in the
> various install/upgrade scenarios) can be solved rather easily and
> hopefully uncontroversially.
> > It appears that the answer to #746578 (libpam-systemd dependency) does
> > not depend on whether users upgrading should be switched to systemd by
> > default.  The current state in jessie is that users are switched by
> > default.  This is controversial.
> I don't think this is as controversial as you think.  The current setup,
> including the sysvinit transitional package and new essential init
> package, was discussed and implemented by maintainers of sysvinit,
> systemd, and upstart, and cleanly supports all three, while reflecting
> the systemd default.

Hi, and sorry for writing in this list as I am not a CTTE member, but I think 
this is controversial as far as reading -devel shows that several developers 
are not happy with users being upgraded by default. And this is not taking 
into account users' POV. There are users which should experience init change 
by default: these are our less technical users who want Debian to "just work" 
on their laptos and don't care how. But there are also users (me included) who 
do not want to be migrated from the currently-installed init system (whichever 
it is) to systemd when they still have installed their sysvinit package. Their 
reasoning is as simple as "If I have sysvinit package installed is because I 
want sysv to be my init" which may be completed by "and having sysvinit 
package to change my init system on my back is a treason".

This is not about this having been discussed and implemented by maintainers of 
all three init systems together. This is about respect for our users and their 

If a user installs the desktop task, he gets our default. If he installs 
Gnome, he positively wants Gnome. Same for any other general/specific pair like 
webserver/apache or mailserver/exim4. Why not for init system?

As a resume, IMHO users should get a prominent question during the upgrade 
asking if they want to switch init system, and offering a way to say no. And of 
course, telling them that our default is yes and that the recommended is yes 
and that the best idea is yes and that the better supported init system is the 
one they get if they say yes... but with a real option to say no. I do not 
know if this can technically be done during sysvinit-jessie preconfigure or how 
can it be done, but surely I do not want that upgrading my _sysvinit_ package 
alone causes my system to be migrated to systemd.


Noel Torres
er Envite

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