Bug#604839: Bug#988472: Bug#604839: [installation-guide] Planned overhaul of chapter 4.3 "Preparing Files for USB Memory Stick Booting"
On Sat 09 Oct 2021 at 11:21:54 +0200, Holger Wansing wrote:
> Hi,
Hello Holger,
Thank you for your consideration
> Brian Potkin <claremont102@gmail.com> wrote (Sun, 3 Oct 2021 14:45:29 +0100):
> > > You should be able to see to which device the USB stick was mapped
> > > by running the command dmesg after inserting it.
> >
> > I would add lsblk, with a link to its manual page.
> >
> > You should be able to see to which device the USB stick was mapped
> > by running the command lsblk before and after inserting it. The
> > output of dmesg (as root) is another discovery method.
>
> Ok, applied (similar).
Looks good.
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > If you use the wrong device the result could be that all information
> > > on for example a hard disk could be lost.
> >
> > Surely it would be quite surprising if all information was not lost?
> > Why not continue the dire warning, particularly as the process is done
> > as root? "would" instead of "could"?
>
> I would simplify that to
> "If you use the wrong device the result could be that all
> information on for example a hard disk is lost."
Sorry, it appears I wasn't very clear. What I wrote was not intended as
replacemet text but a short commentary on whether there is a possibility
or a certainty of data being lost. Changing one word in your text and
putting in a couple of commas:
"If you use the wrong device the result will be that all
information on, for example, a hard disk is lost."
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > Debian installation images for this architecture are created using
> > > the “isohybrid”...
> >
> > I do not understand why "isohybrid" needs to be enclosed in double
> > quotes. Two links:
>
> Ok, I replaced the quotes by a bold font.
Better.
> > https://joeyh.name/blog/entry/Debian_USB_install_from_hybrid_iso/
> > https://blog.einval.com/2011/01/07
> >
> > I have forgotten whether the Guide policy allows referencing pages
> > outside the Debian infrastructure.
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > If you have chosen the mini.iso to be written the USB stick, the
> > > second partition doesn't have to be created, as - very nice - ...
> >
> > The original ("very nicely") is OK and better English (IMO).
>
> Ok, applied.
Thanks.
> Brian Potkin <claremont102@gmail.com> wrote (Sun, 3 Oct 2021 15:51:28 +0100):
> > On Sat 02 Oct 2021 at 19:48:41 +0200, Holger Wansing wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > I had some understanding issues, mostly in chapter
> > > "Manually copying files to the USB stick — the flexible way"
> >
> > I have never really understood what is so special about syslinux and
> > mbr.bin in the context of using hd-media. GRUB should always be at
> > hand on a Linux machine. This is my flexible way:
> >
> > 1. dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb count=100
> > (Could be omitted).
> >
> > 2. cfdisk /dev/sdb (FAT).
> >
> > 3. mkfs.vfat /dev/sdb1
> > dosfslabel /dev/sdb1 LABEL.
> > (Download dosfstools).
> >
> > 4. mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt
> > grub-install --boot-directory=/mnt/boot /dev/sdb
> >
> > 5. cp vmlinuz /mnt/boot
> > cp initrd.gz /mnt/boot
> >
> > 6. cp <installation_ISO> /mnt
> >
> > 7. # An example grub.cfg.
> > menuentry 'Debian 11.0.0' {
> > linux /boot/vmlinuz shared/ask_device=manual \
> > shared/enter_device=/dev/disk/by-label/LABEL
> > initrd /boot/initrd.gz
> > }
> >
> > 8. cp grub.cfg /mnt/boot/grub
> >
> > 9. Boot.
> >
> > More detail at https://wiki.debian.org/Installation+Archive+USBStick.
> > To declare an interest - I wrote that page.
>
> I personally have no strict preference on syslinux.
> However, the proposed alternative does not look much easier to me ...
> (leaving only the pro, that syslinux does not need to be installed)
>
>
> Other opinions?
>
>
>
>
> Brian Potkin <claremont102@gmail.com> wrote (Sun, 3 Oct 2021 19:40:00 +0100):
> > On Sat 02 Oct 2021 at 19:48:41 +0200, Holger Wansing wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > - Because a long time has passed by since the last overhaul of this chapter,
> > > maybe there is some more, that could be changed, for example because of
> > > changed/new technology or experience?
> >
> > Regarding 4.3.2. at
> >
> > https://people.debian.org/~holgerw/installation-guide_2021-10-02/amd64/ch04s03.html
> >
> >
> > > An alternative way to set up your USB stick is to manually copy
> > > the installer files,...
> >
> > This section has been about since the dawn of time :). It predates the
> > advent of isohybrid technology and could be said to have served its
> > purpose and be retired. An alternative would be to leave it there and
> > introduce it as follows:
> >
> > Prior to isohybrid technology being used for all Debian ISOs, this way
> > was the method used to boot from a USB device. It has been superseded
> > by the technique in Section 4.3.1 [LINK] but has been left here for
> > educational and historical purposes and in case it proves of use to a
> > user.
>
> Basically I could follow that proposal, I have trimmed it a bit to:
>
> "Prior to isohybrid technology being used for &debian; installation images, the
> methods documented in the chapters below were used to prepare media for
> booting from USB devices.
> This has been superseded by the technique in <xref linkend="usb-copy-isohybrid"/>,
> but has been left here for educational and historical purposes and in case it
> proves of use to a user."
>
> However, I am quite uncomfortable with the last sentence
> "... and in case it proves of use to a user."
>
> Could we use some sort of easier English for this (better understanding)?
> Proposal?
"... and in case it proves of use to a user." could be ommited. I
suppose the idea is included in "educational".
There some plurals to attend to in your text:
These have been superseded by the technique in <xref linkend="usb-copy-isohybrid"/>,
but have been left here for educational and historical purposes and in case it
proves of use to a user."
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > ...(smaller setups are possible if you follow Section 4.3.3,...
> >
> > I wonder about this. The Debian 11 netinst ISO is 480M. GRUB plus the
> > boot files are 33M. Would they fit on a 512M USB stick (which is not
> > really 512M)? Partially tested to say "no". My rule of thumb is 1G.
>
> A 512MB stick is possible with netboot files.
> The netboot files lead to a more minimal memory footprint (no need to copy
> an ISO image to the stick), so I would leave that sentence in...
> (Maybe that could be an argument for keeping this chapter at all!)
Fair enough. Unlike the hd-media method, which I find vey useful, I
haven't found the need this method.
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > The link beginning
> >
> > http://http.us.debian.org/
> >
> > should be
> >
> > http://deb.debian.org/
> >
> > or
> >
> > https://deb.debian.org/
>
> Hmm, that might be a point for a separate editing round, since there might
> be some more occurrences of such links, which could be moved to deb.debian.org.
> Will look into this.
>
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > The Note exercised my mind. It has nothing to do with the being able to
> > use this method but refers to an after effect. "major disadvantage"
> > refers to this after effect. An alarming term.
> >
> > > Note that, although convenient and successful, this method does have a
> > > drawback affecting how the size of the USB device is seen because it
> > > sets its logical size to 1 GB, even if the capacity of the USB stick is
> > > larger. You will need to repartition the USB stick and create new file
> > > systems to get its full capacity back if you ever want to use it for
> > > some different purpose.
>
> Basically I see your point, however from the reader's point of view, I think
> the existing variant is easier to understand.
> And since it's not strictly wrong, I would keep it as is.
Not unreasonable. I had to use dd, cfdisk and mkfs.*.
> A new diff is attached.
> And I have updated the docs at
> https://people.debian.org/~holgerw/installation-guide_2021-10-09/
I looked at both. Hope I haven't missed anything.
Cheers,
Brian.
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