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Bug#458972: marked as done (install gripes)

Your message dated Fri, 4 Jan 2008 07:20:41 +0100
with message-id <20080104062041.GN13652@mykerinos.kheops.frmug.org>
and subject line Bug#458972: install gripes
has caused the attached Bug report to be marked as done.

This means that you claim that the problem has been dealt with.
If this is not the case it is now your responsibility to reopen the
Bug report if necessary, and/or fix the problem forthwith.

(NB: If you are a system administrator and have no idea what I am
talking about this indicates a serious mail system misconfiguration
somewhere.  Please contact me immediately.)

Debian bug tracking system administrator
(administrator, Debian Bugs database)
--- Begin Message --- 
Package: installation-reports

Boot method: netinst CD
Image version: amd64 4.0_r1 (because r2 wasn't available despite being released 12/27) 
Date: 12/31/07

Machine: Dell 2950
Processor: Intel quad-core
Memory: 4g
Partitions: <df -Tl will do; the raw partition table is preferred>

Output of lspci -nn and lspci -vnn:
00:00.0 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation 5000X Chipset Memory Controller Hu 
b [8086:25c0] (rev 12)
00:02.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset PCI Express x4 
Port 2 [8086:25e2] (rev 12)
00:03.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset PCI Express x4 
Port 3 [8086:25e3] (rev 12)
00:04.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset PCI Express x8 
Port 4-5 [8086:25f8] (rev 12)
00:05.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset PCI Express x4 
Port 5 [8086:25e5] (rev 12)
00:06.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset PCI Express x8 
Port 6-7 [8086:25f9] (rev 12)
00:07.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset PCI Express x4 
Port 7 [8086:25e7] (rev 12)
00:10.0 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset Error Reportin 
g Registers [8086:25f0] (rev 12)
00:10.1 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset Error Reportin 
g Registers [8086:25f0] (rev 12)
00:10.2 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset Error Reportin 
g Registers [8086:25f0] (rev 12)
00:11.0 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset Reserved Regis 
ters [8086:25f1] (rev 12)
00:13.0 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset Reserved Regis 
ters [8086:25f3] (rev 12)
00:15.0 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset FBD Registers 
[8086:25f5] (rev 12)
00:16.0 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset FBD Registers 
[8086:25f6] (rev 12)
00:1c.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 631xESB/632xESB/3100 Chipset PCI Ex 
press Root Port 1 [8086:2690] (rev 09)
00:1d.0 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation 631xESB/632xESB/3100 Chipset UH 
CI USB Controller #1 [8086:2688] (rev 09)
00:1d.1 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation 631xESB/632xESB/3100 Chipset UH 
CI USB Controller #2 [8086:2689] (rev 09)
00:1d.2 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation 631xESB/632xESB/3100 Chipset UH 
CI USB Controller #3 [8086:268a] (rev 09)
00:1d.7 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation 631xESB/632xESB/3100 Chipset EH 
CI USB2 Controller [8086:268c] (rev 09)
00:1d.7 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation 631xESB/632xESB/3100 Chipset EH 
CI USB2 Controller [8086:268c] (rev 09)
00:1e.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge [8086:244e] (rev d 
9)
00:1f.0 ISA bridge [0601]: Intel Corporation 631xESB/632xESB/3100 Chipset LPC In 
terface Controller [8086:2670] (rev 09)
00:1f.1 IDE interface [0101]: Intel Corporation 631xESB/632xESB IDE Controller [ 
8086:269e] (rev 09)
01:00.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 80333 Segment-A PCI Express-to-PCI 
Express Bridge [8086:0370]
01:00.2 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 80333 Segment-B PCI Express-to-PCI 
Express Bridge [8086:0372]
02:0e.0 RAID bus controller [0104]: Dell PowerEdge Expandable RAID controller 5 
[1028:0015]
04:00.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Broadcom EPB PCI-Express to PCI-X Bridge [1166:0103] 
(rev c3)
05:00.0 Ethernet controller [0200]: Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme II BCM5708 Gi 
gabit Ethernet [14e4:164c] (rev 12)
06:00.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 6311ESB/6321ESB PCI Express Upstrea 
m Port [8086:3500] (rev 01)
06:00.3 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 6311ESB/6321ESB PCI Express to PCI- 
X Bridge [8086:350c] (rev 01)
07:00.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 6311ESB/6321ESB PCI Express Downstr 
eam Port E1 [8086:3510] (rev 01)
07:01.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 6311ESB/6321ESB PCI Express Downstr 
eam Port E2 [8086:3514] (rev 01)
08:00.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Broadcom EPB PCI-Express to PCI-X Bridge [1166:0103] 
(rev c3)
09:00.0 Ethernet controller [0200]: Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme II BCM5708 Gi 
gabit Ethernet [14e4:164c] (rev 12)
0c:00.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 6702PXH PCI Express-to-PCI Bridge A 
 [8086:032c] (rev 09)
0d:08.0 SCSI storage controller [0100]: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic SAS1068 PCI-X 
Fusion-MPT SAS [1000:0054] (rev 01)
11:0d.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: ATI Technologies Inc ES1000 [1002:515e 
] (rev 02)
00:00.0 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation 5000X Chipset Memory Controller Hu 
b [8086:25c0] (rev 12)
        Subsystem: Intel Corporation Unknown device [8086:8086]
        Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0
        Capabilities: <access denied>
00:02.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset PCI Express x4 
Port 2 [8086:25e2] (rev 12) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
        Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0
        Bus: primary=00, secondary=06, subordinate=0b, sec-latency=0
        Memory behind bridge: f2000000-f7ffffff
        Capabilities: <access denied>
00:03.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset PCI Express x4 
Port 3 [8086:25e3] (rev 12) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
        Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0
        Bus: primary=00, secondary=01, subordinate=03, sec-latency=0
        Memory behind bridge: fc600000-fc8fffff
Prefetchable memory behind bridge: 00000000d8000000-00000000d80fffff 
        Capabilities: <access denied>
00:04.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset PCI Express x8 
Port 4-5 [8086:25f8] (rev 12) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
        Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0
        Bus: primary=00, secondary=0c, subordinate=0d, sec-latency=0
        I/O behind bridge: 0000e000-0000efff
        Memory behind bridge: fc300000-fc5fffff
        Capabilities: <access denied>
00:05.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset PCI Express x4 
Port 5 [8086:25e5] (rev 12) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
        Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0
        Bus: primary=00, secondary=0e, subordinate=0e, sec-latency=0
        Capabilities: <access denied>
00:06.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset PCI Express x8 
Port 6-7 [8086:25f9] (rev 12) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
        Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0
        Bus: primary=00, secondary=0f, subordinate=0f, sec-latency=0
        Capabilities: <access denied>
00:07.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset PCI Express x4 
Port 7 [8086:25e7] (rev 12) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
        Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0
        Bus: primary=00, secondary=10, subordinate=10, sec-latency=0
        Capabilities: <access denied>
00:10.0 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset Error Reportin 
g Registers [8086:25f0] (rev 12)
        Subsystem: Dell Unknown device [1028:01b2]
        Flags: fast devsel
00:10.1 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset Error Reportin 
g Registers [8086:25f0] (rev 12)
        Subsystem: Dell Unknown device [1028:01b2]
        Flags: fast devsel
00:10.2 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset Error Reportin 
g Registers [8086:25f0] (rev 12)
        Subsystem: Dell Unknown device [1028:01b2]
        Flags: fast devsel
00:11.0 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset Reserved Regis 
ters [8086:25f1] (rev 12)
        Subsystem: Intel Corporation Unknown device [8086:8086]
        Flags: fast devsel
00:13.0 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset Reserved Regis 
ters [8086:25f3] (rev 12)
        Subsystem: Intel Corporation Unknown device [8086:8086]
        Flags: fast devsel
00:15.0 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset FBD Registers 
[8086:25f5] (rev 12)
        Subsystem: Intel Corporation Unknown device [8086:8086]
        Flags: fast devsel
00:16.0 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation 5000 Series Chipset FBD Registers 
[8086:25f6] (rev 12)
        Subsystem: Intel Corporation Unknown device [8086:8086]
        Flags: fast devsel
00:1c.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 631xESB/632xESB/3100 Chipset PCI Ex 
press Root Port 1 [8086:2690] (rev 09) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
        Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0
        Bus: primary=00, secondary=04, subordinate=05, sec-latency=0
        Memory behind bridge: f8000000-fbffffff
        Capabilities: <access denied>
00:1d.0 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation 631xESB/632xESB/3100 Chipset UH 
CI USB Controller #1 [8086:2688] (rev 09) (prog-if 00 [UHCI])
        Subsystem: Dell Unknown device [1028:01b2]
        Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 74
        I/O ports at cce0 [size=32]
00:1d.1 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation 631xESB/632xESB/3100 Chipset UH 
CI USB Controller #2 [8086:2689] (rev 09) (prog-if 00 [UHCI])
        Subsystem: Dell Unknown device [1028:01b2]
        Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 82
        I/O ports at ccc0 [size=32]
00:1d.2 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation 631xESB/632xESB/3100 Chipset UH 
CI USB Controller #3 [8086:268a] (rev 09) (prog-if 00 [UHCI])
        Subsystem: Dell Unknown device [1028:01b2]
        Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 74
        I/O ports at cca0 [size=32]
00:1d.7 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation 631xESB/632xESB/3100 Chipset EH 
CI USB2 Controller [8086:268c] (rev 09) (prog-if 20 [EHCI])
        Subsystem: Dell Unknown device [1028:01b2]
        Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 74
00:1e.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge [8086:244e] (rev d 
9) (prog-if 01 [Subtractive decode])
        Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0
        Bus: primary=00, secondary=11, subordinate=11, sec-latency=32
        I/O behind bridge: 0000d000-0000dfff
        Memory behind bridge: fc100000-fc2fffff
Prefetchable memory behind bridge: 00000000d0000000-00000000d7ffffff 
        Capabilities: <access denied>
00:1f.0 ISA bridge [0601]: Intel Corporation 631xESB/632xESB/3100 Chipset LPC In 
terface Controller [8086:2670] (rev 09)
        Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0
00:1f.1 IDE interface [0101]: Intel Corporation 631xESB/632xESB IDE Controller [ 
8086:269e] (rev 09) (prog-if 8a [Master SecP PriP])
        Subsystem: Dell Unknown device [1028:01b2]
        Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 169
        I/O ports at <unassigned>
        I/O ports at <unassigned>
        I/O ports at <unassigned>
        I/O ports at <unassigned>
        I/O ports at fc00 [size=16]
01:00.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 80333 Segment-A PCI Express-to-PCI 
Express Bridge [8086:0370] (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
        Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0
        Bus: primary=01, secondary=02, subordinate=02, sec-latency=64
        Memory behind bridge: fc700000-fc8fffff
Prefetchable memory behind bridge: 00000000d8000000-00000000d80fffff 
        Capabilities: <access denied>



Base System Installation Checklist:
[O] = OK, [E] = Error (please elaborate below), [ ] = didn't try it

Initial boot:           [O ]
Detect network card:    [ O]
Configure network:      [ O*]
Detect CD:              [ O]
Load installer modules: [ O*]
Detect hard drives:     [ O]
Partition hard drives:  [ O*]
Install base system:    [ O]
Clock/timezone setup:   [ O]
User/password setup:    [ O*]
Install tasks:          [ O*]
Install boot loader:    [ O]
Overall install:        [ O*]

Comments/Problems:

The system installed and runs reasonably well.  My issues are:
1) forcing DHCP for net detection no doubt avoids some crisis doing a netinst, and I suppose I should go to the trouble of reconfiguring my DNS server, but for me a manual setup would have been better.
2) the installer loaded the floppy module 3 or 4 times during the process, even though I haven't seen a server with a floppy drive in a good many years.
3) partitioning is a little non-intuitive, though I got used to it. The guided install seemed to want to do odd things and blow away the Dell service partition, possibly because this has a PERC5 raid card in it.
4) How is it a good idea to have so many sys users (games, list, irc, etc) with login shells?
5) So now we get to the issues, which apply to the Ubuntu variants as well: This machine is going to be a samba fileserver. I was delighted to see you had a task for exactly that. However, I will need to run SWAT, some sys monitors, package managers etc, so I need a GUI. I won't get into the mystery of why so many people seem enamored of ugly fluffy prissy chaotic bloated gnome, but I had picked the task of making this a server. It's in a closet. Nobody will be sitting at this console. I don't want/need PIM, IM, a phone, Office, Movie cataloger, 295,000 multimedia themes, 1,001 games, a bazillion and three other pieces of fluff, and Evolution. Imagine my surprise to find out you can't remove Evolution without removing gnome! Also how nice to find alsa and bluetooth running, even though the machine will never have either card. It can't possibly be a good idea to run all that crap. Your own security instructions say "don't install software you don't need" - so why isn't there a minimalist GUI available for server tasks?
6) overall the install was pretty painless. Some of the followup was harder than it needed to be - you really should do something to streamline package management. Biggest problem I had was the admin tools (adding users) crashing. Sorry, I can't have a system doing that.
I never got around to trying the tape drive (external Dell LTO4-120 sas) but I assume it will work sans encryption - it does in Fedora. Would be nice if someone would bundle up the key managers for that feature.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Quoting keith (keith@archimedes.com):

> 1) forcing DHCP for net detection no doubt avoids some crisis doing a 
> netinst, and I suppose I should go to the trouble of reconfiguring my DNS 
> server, but for me a manual setup would have been better.

That is possible to be chosen on "expert" installs or by preseeding
the netcfg/use_dhcp to "False". When it comes at
default installs, we decided long time ago to default to DHCP-based
installs with the assumption that this is the most common case for
end-users.




>
> 2) the installer loaded the floppy module 3 or 4 times during the process, 
> even though I haven't seen a server with a floppy drive in a good many 
> years.
>

Design choice again. The installer is meant to be as versatile as
possible so hardware-supporting modules are loaded (or attempted to)
at various places to give as many possibilities as possible to users.


> 3) partitioning is a little non-intuitive, though I got used to it.  The 
> guided install seemed to want to do odd things and blow away the Dell 
> service partition, possibly because this has a PERC5 raid card in it.

Well, enhancing the partitioner (or having a graphical one) is
somewhere on the TODO list...but needs someone to care enough to do
the work.

>
> 4) How is it a good idea to have so many sys users (games, list, irc, etc) 
> with login shells?

That's more a general design choice than strictly an installer
issue. Should be discussed with the base-files maintainer, if I'm correct.

>
> 5) So now we get to the issues, which apply to the Ubuntu variants as well: 
>  This machine is going to be a samba fileserver.  I was delighted to see 
> you had a task for exactly that.  However, I will need to run SWAT, some 
> sys monitors, package managers etc, so I need a GUI.  I won't get into the 
> mystery of why so many people seem enamored of ugly fluffy prissy chaotic 
> bloated gnome, but I had picked the task of making this a server.  It's in 
> a closet.  Nobody will be sitting at this console.  I don't want/need PIM, 
> IM, a phone, Office, Movie cataloger, 295,000 multimedia themes, 1,001 
> games, a bazillion and three other pieces of fluff, and Evolution.  Imagine 
> my surprise to find out you can't remove Evolution without removing gnome!  
> Also how nice to find alsa and bluetooth running, even though the machine 
> will never have either card.  It can't possibly be a good idea to run all 
> that crap.  Your own security instructions say "don't install software you 
> don't need" - so why isn't there a minimalist GUI available for server 
> tasks?

Mostly because tasks are first meant to simplify the task for base end
users which we don't want to provide with various "graphical
interface" choices which would be confusing to them (that's also the
reason for which there is no obvious choice between KDE and Gnome).

In short, it is assumed that ppl who want a simple GUI setup are quite
able to choose the needed packages. On the other hand, if I'm correct
the xfce-desktop task might be what you need.

> 6) overall the install was pretty painless.  Some of the followup was 
> harder than it needed to be - you really should do something to streamline 
> package management.  Biggest problem I had was the admin tools (adding 
> users) crashing.  Sorry, I can't have a system doing that.


Well, here you need to be more precise about what tool is crashing and
report the issue against that tool. "adduser" doesn't crash as far as
I know....

> I never got around to trying the tape drive (external Dell LTO4-120 sas) 
> but I assume it will work sans encryption - it does in Fedora.  Would be 
> nice if someone would bundle up the key managers for that feature.

Here agin, widely outside the scope of the installer itself, of
course.

Given that your installation was a complete success, I do as
usual with reports for successful installations: I close the bug..:-)

This does not of course mean you weren't right to report. Knowing the
installations are correct is important for the d-i team.

Many thanks for your time testing the Debian Installer and reporting
your results. Have fun with your new Debian system!

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